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wywait
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 Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:55 pm GMT Post subject: |
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| circusmonkey wrote: | | Quote: | Hey guys, Is it possible to use single scatter sss with the point instance procedural? I could have sworn I had it working earlier but recently all I get is black renders.
Mike |
Cannot say Ive looked into that. do you have a file ?
Rob |
Sorry for the delay. Here's an example of what I'm talking about. Single scatter sss doesn't calculate from what I can tell with fast point instancing.
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Stalkerx777
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:19 am GMT Post subject: |
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Hi guys! Could you tell me is it possible to use fast point instancing with delayed load procedural on instantiated object?
It works fine with full point instancing, but not with new point_instance_procedural.Is it limitation or bug?
Ok, i know i can load bgeos right in point_instance_procedural with instancefile attribute, but in this case i need to assign materials somehow ( which is nicely done with delayed load and separate material.ifd file).
Thanks.
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circusmonkey
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:36 pm GMT Post subject: |
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The docs do not mention it as something that's supported. Did support say anything ?
Sorry wywait I just don't have the time right now to dig into your file. If it did work and now does not you should be contacting support.
Rob
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wywait
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:49 pm GMT Post subject: |
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| We've been in contact with support. It's a know bug. I believe they're looking into it.
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SYmek
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:46 am GMT Post subject: |
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| Stalkerx777 wrote: | Hi guys! Could you tell me is it possible to use fast point instancing with delayed load procedural on instantiated object?
It works fine with full point instancing, but not with new point_instance_procedural.Is it limitation or bug?
Ok, i know i can load bgeos right in point_instance_procedural with instancefile attribute, but in this case i need to assign materials somehow ( which is nicely done with delayed load and separate material.ifd file).
Thanks. |
I don't think that's possible, because these two are both procedurals, and Mantra can't stack procedural geometry shaders (which would be awesome btw).
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halfdan
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Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:50 pm GMT Post subject: Re: SSS and point instance procedural |
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| wywait wrote: | Hey guys, Is it possible to use single scatter sss with the point instance procedural? I could have sworn I had it working earlier but recently all I get is black renders.
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Don't think this ever worked. The problem is with how the SSS does the point cloud generation and the way Mantra's named scopes work. Scopes only work on top-level named objects, not named objects generated by procedurals.
We've introduced a new automatic scope, "scope:self", which can be used as an argument to the "scope" parameter of the VEX raytracing functions to restrict them to the currently shading object only.
This allows fast point instanced objects to work with both single- and multiple-scattering.
Will be in tomorrow's build (H12.0.663).
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alejandro
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circusmonkey
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:29 pm GMT Post subject: |
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Half dan , can we get a working example of this ? . On a side has anyone be able to get a looped geometry animation coupled with a random offset per instance to work ? when using a file sop.
Rob
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halfdan
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:42 pm GMT Post subject: |
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| circusmonkey wrote: | can we get a working example of this ? . On a side has anyone be able to get a looped geometry animation coupled with a random offset per instance to work ? when using a file sop.
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Attached is a scene that does both, except that instead of using the file sop, it uses the "instancefile" attribute to point to a bgeo at render time.
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sss_anim.hip |
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wywait
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:20 am GMT Post subject: |
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That's awesome! Thanks guys. And it works with caustics. Score.
From what I can tell there's no extra setup either. Is that correct? Can you think of an example where one might want to pass custom arguments to the scope parameter?
Mike
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fsimerey
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:41 am GMT Post subject: |
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Just another exemple.
92 614 instanced points
46 different characters (5000 polys each)
46 different textures
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Last edited by fsimerey on Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:21 am GMT; edited 1 time in total |
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circusmonkey
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:27 pm GMT Post subject: |
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Hi fsimerey,nice work any chance you can make the image smaller currently it fills my browser  . Feel free to show an example of how you did it or any hip files for others.
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vbk!!!
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| Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:58 am GMT Post subject: |
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very nice work, fsimerey
I woud love to check an .hip file if possible : I am trying to make the same kind of stuff so ...
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circusmonkey
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| Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:27 am GMT Post subject: |
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instancefile >
I have created an instancefile attribute. the string reads $HIP/geometry/horse_v01.`padzero(4,$RANDOFFSET)`.bgeo . This is coupled with a looping attribute called RANDOFFSET . This way each frame in the sequences has a random start value and loops when I scrub the time line.
See image from details view. I scrub the time line and it works as expected. I render any frame below 80 which is when the loop resets and the objects render but with no offset per point in the animation. If I render over frame 80 which is past the original frame range and I get a blank render. Yet the attribute is correct and works.
This make me question just how does the instancefile work per point. Is it not able to read a sequence of bgeo files ? per frame with an offset. Even though as you can see from the image attached each point should get a different start frame and loop.
Rob
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johm
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| Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:15 am GMT Post subject: |
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Not sure exactly how you're using the looping variable in conjunction with the already randomly offset looping index value inherent in the file name. Seems redundant to carry around the extra RANDOFFSET point attribute, unless you're using it somewhere else.
This works for me:
grid->scatter->attribcreate
AttribCreate:
Name = instancefile
String = $HIP/horse_dir/horse.`padzero(4, wrap($PT + $F, 1, 100))`.bgeo
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fsimerey
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| Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:09 pm GMT Post subject: |
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| circusmonkey wrote: | | Hi fsimerey,nice work any chance you can make the image smaller currently it fills my browser . Feel free to show an example of how you did it or any hip files for others. |
Sorry for time to reply, i was very busy...
And i resized the picture !! Sorry for that.
| vbk!!! wrote: | very nice work, fsimerey
I woud love to check an .hip file if possible : I am trying to make the same kind of stuff so ... |
My file is very simple given that all characters are at this time, without animation. It will be the next step...
I have 3 attributes:
- pscale (for adjust size of characters)
- numcast (between 1 to 45, to identify characters)
value exp: ceil(rand($PT+1232654) * 45)
- instancefile (to get the geometry based on numcast)
value exp: $HIP/geo/public_europe/rocket_casual_bat_`point("../attrib_numcast", $PT, "numcast", 0)`.bgeo
The only trick here is in foreach SOP by 'Each Attribute Value' to setup material with an override for 'BaseColorMap' based on numcast attribute to avoid oversize memory.
I can uplaod an hip file, but without characters geometry, it's not very helpful. But let me know.
P.S. vbk, si tu es sur Paris, on peut se rencontrer. Ca serait plus simple pour te passer des fichiers
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circusmonkey
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| Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:05 pm GMT Post subject: |
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Hi John,
Ive since discovered a bit of bug with the instancefile , it only works with fast point instancing using full point instancing it fails.
At least we now have a looping animation with a random start frame thats instanced.
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horseInstance_v01.mov |
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vbk!!!
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| Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:48 am GMT Post subject: |
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thx for your explanation fsimerey.
I'll try to follow your steps.
If I meet some issue I let you know.
Je suis sur Paris ( Saint Ouen pour être exact). Je serais ravi te de rencontrer à l'occaz.
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jeff
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| Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:01 am GMT Post subject: |
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| circusmonkey wrote: | Hi John,
Ive since discovered a bit of bug with the instancefile , it only works with fast point instancing using full point instancing it fails. |
The goal is to completely replace full point instancing with fast point instancing, because it goes to 11.
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Netvudu
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Joined: 06 May 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:23 am GMT Post subject: |
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Should I expect to get a huge decrease of memory management and performance while instancing with the Micropolygon renderer? Both PBR and Raytracing show great response, but as soon as I change to Micropolygon memory goes over the roof as well as render time. It affects fast point instancing, full, and delayed loading.
H12.0.655, Win64 here
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Javier Meroño. Head of VFX Courses at FX Animation, Barcelona. |
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circusmonkey
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| Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:33 pm GMT Post subject: |
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Hey Javier, can you post up a scene file ? . Recent H builds have had some improvements to instancing.
Rob
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halfdan
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:53 am GMT Post subject: |
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| circusmonkey wrote: | Ive since discovered a bit of bug with the instancefile , it only works with fast point instancing using full point instancing it fails.
At least we now have a looping animation with a random start frame thats instanced. |
Not a bug; it's completely by design. With full point instancing you can simply instantiate the file procedural multiple times and vary its arguments. This isn't possible with fast point instancing, and so the "instancefile" and "instanceblurfile" attributes were added, to do this automatically at render time.
However it's missing a way to specify a material archive right now. We're working on that.
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halfdan
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Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:57 am GMT Post subject: |
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| Netvudu wrote: | Should I expect to get a huge decrease of memory management and performance while instancing with the Micropolygon renderer? Both PBR and Raytracing show great response, but as soon as I change to Micropolygon memory goes over the roof as well as render time. It affects fast point instancing, full, and delayed loading.
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This is a known issue with REYES algorithms, like micropoly. We have to generate geometry for all instances, unfortunately. We're looking into ways to reduce this. However, for now, it's recommended to do instancing only with raytracing (which is what PBR uses as well), which completely shares acceleration data and geometries across instances.
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Netvudu
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Joined: 06 May 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:25 am GMT Post subject: |
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ah, good to know...and good to know that you know 
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Javier Meroño. Head of VFX Courses at FX Animation, Barcelona. |
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circusmonkey
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Joined: 26 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:59 pm GMT Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Not a bug; it's completely by design. With full point instancing you can simply instantiate the file procedural multiple times and vary its arguments. This isn't possible with fast point instancing, and so the "instancefile" and "instanceblurfile" attributes were added, to do this automatically at render time.
However it's missing a way to specify a material archive right now. We're working on that. |
So that's basically multiple copies of the same object with various parameter changes. I used the instancefile approach to the horses because the help says that its used for reading bgeo files and in my case I have a sequence of Bgeo files so it seemed the right way to go. I'm sure you can understand the confusion my end.
I have done a search for instanceblurfile and the help returns nothing. Can you give some more details on this and how it should be used. Maybe also a breakdown on the approach to getting the correct motion blur on your instances.
| Quote: | | This is a known issue with REYES algorithms, like micropoly. We have to generate geometry for all instances, unfortunately. We're looking into ways to reduce this. However, for now, it's recommended to do instancing only with raytracing (which is what PBR uses as well), which completely shares acceleration data and geometries across instances. |
Very useful information.
rob
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