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Bullet physics implementation and other stuff
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cybermax
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:32 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

goshone wrote:

Hi cybermax,
Great job on this by the way. I was wondering if anything came of this? I am getting quite a bit of jitter from resting objects (I am trying to sim many thousand coins). Perhaps there is a workaround in the meantime? I was thinking of just excluding certain objects from updating within the sim, but was unsure how to do this? Would I use 'update objects' somehow? I feel that it may need to be done using geo being written/read from disk. Unfortunately, we are not able to use the Digital Asset as it causes our Houdini session to become non-commercial. Any thoughts?
Thanks in advance

ok, my last release is very, very old, so I dont exactly remember which system I created. But I think that with this old plugin you can not solve this.

I am preparing completely new software for simulation, includes rbd(gpu in future), sbd(gpu), fluid(gpu) and I have plan for Gas(gpu). First beta comes in 1month(aprox.). At this moment I dont want to release more information, just be sure, that I still work on physics algorithm and all of you will be able to try this new software. Its NOT inhouse!

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goshone
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:24 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I am preparing completely new software for simulation, includes rbd(gpu in future), sbd(gpu), fluid(gpu) and I have plan for Gas(gpu). First beta comes in 1month(aprox.).


wicked Twisted Evil
well, that is good news indeed for the community, but bad news for me personally re: my current project. Oh well, i guess back to standard RBDs in the meantime. If there is anyone that has a better solution to thousands/millions of coins piling up, stacking on top of each other, please share.

thanx
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patar
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:42 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

maybe tif u have access to realflow?it has a pretty good stack solver...
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goshone
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:07 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Am trying the realflow (real-slow) RBD path now. But in the meantime, I have a rough working version of autofreeze that I added to your otl. However, I am having a bit of trouble with one thing. I am able to interrupt the passing of params like bullet_transform and bullet_v and writing instead my own data ( like velocity of 0, 0, 0 or a static transformation, even setting mass to 0), but things are still receiving transform data from the bullet_solver node. I have tried to do this interrupt before the solver, as well as after the solve (but before the bullet_transform), but neither seems to remove the jitter completely. Cybermax, perhaps you have some insight to accomplish this? Is there some way to remove an object from the simulation (or temporarily make it static), then possibly add it back in to the sim based on some threshold?

thanks

EDIT:
After looking at the 'kinematic_or_dynamic_body' in the sample scene, I see that you are doing some interesting things outside of the otl, by piping things back in from OUT_properties, and updating the objects. I am not sure exactly what is going on there, but will try to achieve what I want thru that mechanism.
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cybermax
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:24 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

goshone:
you can turn on "update objects" option, then you can put file node after solver node a save data, and on next frame you can read file node from previous frame and round low velocity to zero, and connect this to solver node.

BUT,

because you have great interest about this plugin, at the beginning of September, I release beta version of my software for testers, so I can send you one copy too. New RBD includes btCylinderShape, so you dont need to use convex body for coins and btCylinderShape will be more stable, plus you can rounding low velocity too and more...., but you need to wait, at this moment I dont have functional-version for you Sad


PS: real-slow ... funny Smile

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goshone
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:11 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
because you have great interest about this plugin, at the beginning of September, I release beta version of my software for testers, so I can send you one copy too.


Cybermax,

That would be much appreciated. Please keep us posted. In the meantime, I will try your 'update objects' solution.

Thanks

EDIT: was gonna suggest a feature if you don't mind (don't mean to be a pest Twisted Evil ). I would like to be able to extract a single point per object with transforms from the sim. I am currently trying to use the properties data, but there are some inconsistencies (mainly once the geo starts to rotate) with the transformations between these points (with similar geo copied to them) and the output from bullet solver. Perhaps this is unnecessary, but would be nice to swap geo later on after the sim. I could provide example and more if needed.
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buki
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:54 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi!
Any news/advancement regarding the new implementation?

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cybermax
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:48 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, its a long time.

I want to write and explain only one thing, because I am still getting a lot of emails on the topic - When will be next update of SOP bullet?

So, I dont work on this plugin or some other plugins for Houdini anymore. I am still learning Houdini and looking forward to buying Escape licence and start using this great software for commercial projects, BUT for things around simulations I develop "my" software(It will be release), because Houdini has basicly bad structure(memory management), so I could not get required speed and memory for massive scenes.

Few notes:
- I dont thing so that SOP is good place for simulation - replacement "objects" with groups is not good for performace.

- developing plugins in 3-party software is very bad, because If I want to recompile plugin I need to close houdini, compile plug. and open Houdini again.

- Even In basic operation, like stamping can be houdini faster. For example attachment scene take in H11 around 52sec. My software dont have stamping but it have something like "for loop", so creating scene is simple like in houdini(doesnt need any special plugins or something like that), BUT Its running 100x faster(single-thread, 200x multi-thread) and wants 9x less memory, which are numbers, I cannot ignore.


I do not want to throw dirt on Houdini, I just want to say reasons, why I dont work on these plugins. Still, compare with Autodesk products, Houdini is Holy Grail Smile


PS: This is official Houdini forum, so please DONT write any questions about my new software!!!



just_copy_box_test.hipnc
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  just_copy_box_test.hipnc
 Filesize:  91.1 KB
 Downloaded:  483 Time(s)


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edward
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:22 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

cybermax wrote:
because Houdini has basicly bad structure(memory management), so I could not get required speed and memory for massive scenes.


Please try out Houdini 12 when it comes out. There are some major memory layout changes for geometry.
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cybermax
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:13 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

edward wrote:

Please try out Houdini 12 when it comes out. There are some major memory layout changes for geometry.


yeaah, I saw Sneak peek, so I know about it and I can not wait to try H12!

I am preparing Programming diary #1 video, where I will talk about modern design of memory managing and multi-thread(multi-gpu), including friendly and fast user-side(scripting, accessing to scene structure, etc...). I dont talk about houdini, but I think, that my access is future, or I hope so Shocked

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cybermax
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:25 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am BACK and There's a Storm Coming!
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zarti
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:37 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

glad to read that !


=)

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buki
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:10 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow Man!

Let it come, we can take it! Very Happy

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cybermax
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:23 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

thx,

I need help. In Attachment You can find scene with RBD simulation(Bullet) inside DOP. My question is, why is not so much stable and If there is some way, how Can I speed up?

I just created grid, which I copied. Then I applied "RBD point object", which copied box on my 3dgrid. Then I went inside DOP network and turn off "Use volume based collision detection" and set "Bullet data" to Box. And on DOP network node I turned off "Provide data hints", which added some speed.



bulletDOPTest.hipnc
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RBD DOP sim

Download
 Filename:  bulletDOPTest.hipnc
 Filesize:  217.24 KB
 Downloaded:  339 Time(s)


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buki
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:46 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi!

tried it, 5000 objects at 1.1 fps is slow?
Altough i used your plugins in sop, way back and it was much faster.
DOP has some overhad creating the dyn objects and building up some data structures, if i'm correct

Also you are displaying other networks when simulating, choose hide other objects it can speed up refresh, the dopimport in SOPs is a pretty slow guy.

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cybermax
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:45 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is 100K objects, 10substeps, real gravity. First frame(sending objects geo. to bullet) takes 3sec. Average time(200frames) is 4sec. And quality is better than bulletDOP. It doesnt update obj. properties every frame(only init), but Its around (1-5)% slower If it updates.

So I am still thinking that I made some mistake(s) in DOP setting.


edit:
If I extend attachment file to 100K objs, First frame takes 1m44s, and 2-4frame average around 1m30s. Other problem is, that with bulletSOP I can have(and I have it) different size of boxes with +-same sim time, but for this I used "RBD point object", but If I use "RBD fracture object" it crashes, because out-of-memory(16GB). With bulletSOP I can have millions of different boxes!

edit2: no multithreading, no GPU

edit3: Sorry, I miscalculated the time of my bulletSOP sim. Its not 7.2s its only 4s!!! Shocked



comp2.jpg
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comp2.jpg



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buki
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:18 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome sim times. Release the storm! Smile
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zarti
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:04 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

TimeShifted Christmas celebration !!?

yeah .. =)
.. better to be 'consumed' long before 12AM of 21 December 2012 .


--


impressive performance cybermax ! bravo .

.cheers

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cybermax
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:11 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

thx,
I want to release it before Xmas(early December, next weekend maybe). Plugin is already done, but We are still working on few bugs, and finding speed issue.

Otherwise, I rewrited completely all source code. So everything is faster. For eg. MultiConstraint takes only 1s in my test scene, Old Multijoint took 1h in same scene. Other issue, what I have solved, was problem with updating(changing) data. So It doesnt use feedbackSOP or fileSOP nodes anymore, but I wrote special node, which read data from previous frame, so Its very easy to use! Better than using new solverSOP, which came with H12.

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Last edited by cybermax on Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:44 pm GMT; edited 1 time in total
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CeeGee
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:29 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is great news, can't wait.....!!!!
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sabotage3d
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:33 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is amazing. Thanks a lot.
Any chance we can see some of your source code for Christmas present Smile
I would be really interested to see some of your bindings for bullet even from the older release.
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cybermax
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:36 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

sabotage3d wrote:

Any chance we can see some of your source code for Christmas present Smile

If everything goes well, you will be more surprised, that you can imagine Shocked

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cybermax
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:33 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

new video: https://vimeo.com/54185240

right now, I am computing 500K objs simulation and after 40frames its still under 40sec/frame, but until I will have video, I can not say anything about quality Confused

Other news: I will build version for Win64, Linux64 and OSX64 Smile

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almatea
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:34 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it possible to use all CPU cores for your solver? It would be great I think.
Could you make test with more complex shapes than boxes? For example voronoi pieces.

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Ratmann
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:04 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

almatea wrote:
Is it possible to use all CPU cores for your solver? It would be great I think.
Could you make test with more complex shapes than boxes? For example voronoi pieces.


Bullet isn't fully mullti threaded yet, it's pretty fast tho. What can be multithreaded is the process of adding back the transformation to each RBD chunk, if what he's getting back from bullet is the centroid points with the transformations for each object.

-Rick

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