Lack of tutorials

Krakatuk · Lurker Joined: 24 Apr 2008 Posts: 2

Hi!

I see that there are some tutorials about Dynamics in Houdini and there are none (just the very common stuff) about rendering and shading. Does this mean that it is the most easiest things in Houdini, and do developers plan to increase the number of tutorials especially when the interest to Houdini is growing or this software was developed for closed community?

Thank you.

SYmek · Houdini Master Joined: 13 Mar 2003 Posts: 944

Hey,
this becomes the main Houdini's issues, I hope SESI hears that. There are more and more complaining about lack in that field. The video tutorial on this web page about lighting and rendering are rather funny in compare to today's people expectations.

Saying that, I must add that there at least two points we should think about:

- Mantra is not just a rendering module of Houdini. It's quite a big subsystem, and it's not so easy to write a "tutorial" about it - which meant to lead from a beginning to finished results and give you comprehensive view of environment. I found this incredible difficult when I was trying to present Mantra in one of company interested in.

Similar situation is for Pixar Renderman which is brilliant in a way of providing informations and spreading out knowledge around the world, yet you cannot find too many "tutorials" in a common sense of that word - there are more precise descriptions of problems, techniques, tricks, lectures covering one specific issue etc. Most tutorials out there cover PRMan *implementation is host applications not the Renderman itself and become pretty useless in advanced stuff.

Yet all this work for PRMan is done by enormous amount of people from PIXAR, ILM and many others studios, in a number exceeding whole SESI's stuff.

- this lead us to the second point: Mantra was written with PRMan in mind. In fact most of people here know Mantra from PRMan books, lectures, pdfs. Maybe this sounds funny, but even reading RI specification[1] helps a lot in understanding Mantra though Mantra is not compatible with Renderman specification!

All I said above doesn't mean SESI shouldn't provide solid materials about rendering in Mantra. This must be told: it's rather embarrassing for serious company. The advanced knowledge of Houdini is owned somehow by small family of guys, who could easily met in one middle-size room. Yet nothing is done to provide this knowledge broader. I see the efforts for a youngest users but there is nothing above it.

Tutorials about rendering and shading for Houdini makes any advanced Maya or XSI user laugh. Sad.

I cannot understand how SESI can expect bigger audience with that attitude - considering that rendering is perhaps the strongest point of Houdini (apart of DOP).

cheers,
sy.
[1] - https://renderman.pixar.com/products/rispec/rispec_pdf/RISpec3_2.pdf

phrenzy84 · Houdini Adept Joined: 02 Aug 2005 Posts: 126

I agree with symek, although thee is another angle that is being forgotten.

Houdini is a differenet app than most, and alot of people have the perception that Houdini is highly technical and anyone without a computer science degree shouldnt even look at it.

But alot of very smart people here, and on odforce are technically minded. And are able to take advantage of alot of what Houdini can offer them. I on the other hand come from a more artistic background and although i am trying to beef up my technical skills i know that i will never be on par with someone who started off technically and continued to do so for several years.

Kinda like learning languages, once your native tongue has devleoped any other language you leanr will never be as good as someone who is from that country (most of the time, there are quite a few exceptions) .

Plus i dont know the staff count at SESI, and most of all the count on the marketing/tutorial side, because i see tutorials as a way of selling a product pretty much, if you can show how to do something especially in a way that is faster than most apps, it subconsiously tunr into a commerical (in my opinion).

Thats is why i think there needs to be a push on both ends. People who are technical but their skills need to be transfered to Houdini and the Artists who want to make a pretty picture.

I wish i had something to offer, maybe in the future i will, it might not be technically grounded but it would show other artists currently using the product and others that are looking for an alternative, it could be a viable option.

For now though im still going to post questions and hope for answers on the forums.

Just look at my histroy with fur, still trying to get that damn stuff under my control.

by the way, i hear the presentation coming up with Mario and maybe a few others will be screen captured, i think this is a massive step forward, although i doubt i will gain much knowledge i know that other will and im all for that.

-andy

probbins · Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:14 am GMT Post subject: Re: Lack of tutorials

Yes.

Gerome · Socialite Joined: 02 Aug 2004 Posts: 85

kuba · Houdini Expert Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posts: 291

arctor · Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:58 am GMT Post subject:

I've said for years that the Houdini documentation and tutorials should reflect the USE of Houdini in production, no one is rendering spheres on a grid...
there have been some images/animations in the past year or so that should have been packaged up and distributed to Houdini users...
specifically >
the procedural Girl animation
the little dragon animation

the ENTIRE projects
models, rigs, envoronments, materials, VFX setups etc etc
with a broad overview document about how all these things are used together to achieve the end result.
and additional documents to focus on specific areas.

this way a Houdini user could, step by step, see how Houdini is used in a real production situation
also...where are the files from all the demo pics/vids for DOPs etc...the waterfall thing, the balls in the bathtub etc?
it's not a huge deal to keep these files reasonably up to date...
I have yet to understand why these materials are never seen outside of SESI marketing material - I think they would be VERY usefull to all levels of user.

phrenzy84 · Houdini Adept Joined: 02 Aug 2005 Posts: 126

i for one would love that, i learn enough from people's files over at odforce, if these complete files were available, that would be awesome, if they also had documentation, that would be a whole other thing. Explaining to users the techniques that might not be so apparent on the surface is always a luxury.

I remember the rabbit OTL a while back and at the time i hardly knew anything about Houdini, but when was following a rigging tutorial i wanted to know the difference in what SESI was doing. (in the end i still didnt know anything but i think today with examples files now, i understand alot more and if it had documentation, it would probably be difficult NOT to understand).

Excellent point.

AdamJ · Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 12:11 pm GMT Post subject:

Krakatuk · Lurker Joined: 24 Apr 2008 Posts: 2

Thanks everyone for the answers!

I just wanted to add that there are two ways to get how something works: deductive and inductive. Someone starts from the basics and then construct the whole picture; someone needs to break the whole picture into parts to see what's there inside of it to get how it works. Well, it's always easier for me to figure something out in deductive way. Dig into parts and then pull my technical basis to the corresponding level, without it all the technical stuff is one heck of a 'marklar' for me. But having touched the parts it gets clearer in technical. I even started learn English not from grammar, constructing phrases so they 'sound well' - then I learned grammar.

That's why I'd love to see more info on using Houdini as a powerful app for projects and not just for some particular needs.

Smile

probbins · Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:38 am GMT Post subject:

And would you like fries with that Michael Very Happy

stu · Socialite Joined: 18 Apr 2005 Posts: 64 Location: Toronto

arctor · Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:52 am GMT Post subject:

probbins · Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 3:39 pm GMT Post subject:

jeff · Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:32 pm GMT Post subject:

stevenong · Houdini Guru Joined: 22 Jul 2002 Posts: 1611

I'm more than happy to be a mirror site and I'm mirroring some of the H9 videos now. I'm sure there are more than a few other users who would be willing to be mirrors as well.

Cheers!
steven

phrenzy84 · Houdini Adept Joined: 02 Aug 2005 Posts: 126

I have no problem helping seed these files and if for some reason all the seeders dissapear, people can post in the thread asking for seeders and it can be done. But i doubt there will be a problem. Luxology do it with their video content all the time and they go into the 3 GB range.

mrice · Socialite Joined: 25 Apr 2008 Posts: 80 Location: NY

I hope this becomes a reality.

Some of the newer tutorials have motivated me to finally make a serious effort to learn Houdini, but its a steep climb. And I can only take in a few balls falling on a grid before my ADD kicks in Crying or Very sad

Having access to production files with shading and rendering setup would be amazing. Oh, and I heard some talk of videos from SESI events?

circusmonkey · Houdini Master Joined: 26 Aug 2006 Posts: 973

Well I would be more than happy to seed files and tools ...... As part of a team thats about to embark on building an entire backend for lighting and rendering. Im sure theres going to be some really usefull stuff thats going to come out of it that can be shared.

R

SYmek · Houdini Master Joined: 13 Mar 2003 Posts: 944

phrenzy84 · Houdini Adept Joined: 02 Aug 2005 Posts: 126

Most of the time, for me, i dont want to beg for someone to help me, if i need help though i will ask for it, but I want to find a way to help myself.

From my perspective there are alot of concepts in Houdini that people of certain background will already understand from the word go and instantly have a graps on whats actually going on. I watched pete latest tutorial on a Gas solve and i have to say it was hard getting to the end, simply because i had little/loose knowledge on the subject. I hadnt even heard of an S-noise before.

Is there any material anyone could recommend, on the theoretical side of Houdini, im talking about physics books, math's book whatever. Although i recently purchased a Math's book, that covers alot of topics i never got into and will hopefully shed some light.

Where i can get a god foundation in the concepts that will crop up in Houdini.

-andy

Tamis · Socialite Joined: 01 Sep 2007 Posts: 58

probbins · Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 11:50 am GMT Post subject:

I'm glad you went through the videos and I regard them as a success since you have discovered concepts and functions that you need to understand further. That is a primary purpose of a set of general lessons, to identify what you don't know and clarify the types of questions you feel you need to ask.

A secondary purpose to lessons like these is to hopefully inspire others with a greater understanding to develop examples and lessons that have a finer focus and fill in the many gaps.

jeff · Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:56 pm GMT Post subject:

phrenzy84 · Houdini Adept Joined: 02 Aug 2005 Posts: 126

Ahhh thanks for much jeff.

At least now i have a starting point. These books are as good as purchased. Well at least it shouldnt be too hard to get Essential Renderman and Adavanced, but i will look for the second edition of that Procedural Texturing/Modelling book.

My goals at the moment, vary within houdini (so much to chose from). I want to try this and try that. I grew up(in the world of CG) as a character modeller so I want to build from that. So shaders, riggin, or procedural modelling is where Im headed.

Cant wait to get stuck in.

thanks again Jeff, and looking forward to the rest of your VOP's series.

-andrew