pezetko

SYmek

wildruf
offtopic?

this somehow created a new picture for me - pls see the presto - animation part

http://www.gputechconf.com/page/live-stream-source1.html [gputechconf.com]

(the lower right video)

What I really like in this demo is the elegance of bones/handles display (it somehow reminds me new modo bones). Technicalities of a rig should look exactly Like that, the least possible disturbance for an artist, easy to grab and easy to dismiss.

Me to. I really like the way how artist can grab part of the body (controller) and animate that. (Instead of old curve controllers floating in space).
Fast fur visualisation and light/shadow preview is also great plus.

I have been using mesh pieces for character control and always found it was incredibly better to use although more complex to create due to the need for careful slicing.

I am keen to test it in Houdini as soon as I have a moment.

Constantin X
Regarding animation, where is the pose library button situated? In docs says it's on character shelf, but on both Linux(Ubuntu and Mint) and Windows it's missing from shelf…. The mac screenshot i published earlier is not from my computer; i only have Apprentice so far. So i am only interested in Windows and Linux.
Thank you in advance for replies,
Constantin

Does the help help?

http://www.sidefx.com/docs/houdini13.0/shelf/pose [sidefx.com]

Help file are confusing on this subject. The help states that the POSE tool is on the character shelf. So far i am using Apprentice on both windows and linux, and it's not located there. Any thoughts on this???

MartybNz

Constantin X
Regarding animation, where is the pose library button situated? In docs says it's on character shelf, but on both Linux(Ubuntu and Mint) and Windows it's missing from shelf…. The mac screenshot i published earlier is not from my computer; i only have Apprentice so far. So i am only interested in Windows and Linux.
Thank you in advance for replies,
Constantin

Does the help help?

http://www.sidefx.com/docs/houdini13.0/shelf/pose [sidefx.com]

I am talking about the Pose Library, not the pose tool. And no, it's not on shelf as help states, on either windows or linux boxes. Anyone can help, as a pose library for clips and static poses it's really very much needed? In XSI i have a free tool and in Maya it's included; but i am not going to Maya. So i need it in Houdini. Thanks.

Is this what you are looking for?

http://www.sidefx.com/docs/houdini13.0/character/poselibrary [sidefx.com]

twod

Constantin X
Now how about those nasty little icons(see the image attached)?

They look marginally better in the Light scheme, but I think they're still the old-school vector icons Houdini used to have. The coloring is meant to divide up the operations into groups, and that'd be better handled by grouping the buttons and removing the BG colors, I think. I'll put in a request to get those updated, as it's likely they slipped through the cracks when the icons were redone in H9.

Hi,
I have few RFE to improve workflow in Houdini and help organize the scene in order to become more productive. Here it goes:

- A RFE for the tree view functionality - when i select an item i want it to open up the corresponding node in the network editor(this will speed up working with very large assets scenes) and parameters - right now you select a scene item in the tree view and it does not change the network editor context and parameters to reflect the new selection;

- a RFE to be able to group the items under a null in the tree view with a simple shortcut(like alt+G or whatever) and the same thing happens at the same time in the network editor;

- a RFE to be able to change items order and parents in the tree view so it can help with organizing the scene in tree view

- a RFE for the viewport - the central axes icon( red xyz icon) should not dolly with the scene; currently when i dolly the axes reference icon became smaller and it's hard to work like this

Implementing this very small changes will help speed up workflow and will help with organizing and interact with simple and complex scenes in a more efficient way. I hope this way i can contribute to this great community. Once i dive more into this great program i might find other small things that can be improved so will communicate them. Let me know what you think so far.
Thank you so much,
Constantin

p.s. just to clarify one thing. the picture for the icon change request was taken from the internet since i was not on the office so i could not take a screenshot. i only use Windows and Linux and Apprentice.

Constantin X
- A RFE for the tree view functionality - when i select an item i want it to open up the corresponding node in the network editor(this will speed up working with very large assets scenes) and parameters - right now you select a scene item in the tree view and it does not change the network editor context and parameters to reflect the new selection;


- a RFE to be able to group the items under a null in the tree view with a simple shortcut(like alt+G or whatever) and the same thing happens at the same time in the network editor;

Switch you Tree View to List View (Network Pane -> List View) then under RMB menu select List Order -> Tree.

Then all this works. You can “group” items with Shift+C. Properties of selected node is displayed in Parameters window etc…

Constantin X
- a RFE to be able to change items order and parents in the tree view so it can help with organizing the scene in take list

You can drag and drop (display) order of items in list (if you change List Order to User defined). You can reparent by drag and drop if Order Type is set to Input Output.

Constantin X
- a RFE for the viewport - the central axes icon( red xyz icon) should not dolly with the scene; currently when i dolly the axes reference icon became smaller and it's hard to work like this

There is also axis icon in left corner that keeps same scale all the time.

@ConstantinX: You network view is locked, that's why it does not change

sanostol
@ConstantinX: You network view is locked, that's why it does not change

What he said

pezetko

Constantin X
- A RFE for the tree view functionality - when i select an item i want it to open up the corresponding node in the network editor(this will speed up working with very large assets scenes) and parameters - right now you select a scene item in the tree view and it does not change the network editor context and parameters to reflect the new selection;


- a RFE to be able to group the items under a null in the tree view with a simple shortcut(like alt+G or whatever) and the same thing happens at the same time in the network editor;

Switch you Tree View to List View (Network Pane -> List View) then under RMB menu select List Order -> Tree.

Then all this works. You can “group” items with Shift+C. Properties of selected node is displayed in Parameters window etc…

Constantin X
- a RFE to be able to change items order and parents in the tree view so it can help with organizing the scene in take list

You can drag and drop (display) order of items in list (if you change List Order to User defined). You can reparent by drag and drop if Order Type is set to Input Output.

Constantin X
- a RFE for the viewport - the central axes icon( red xyz icon) should not dolly with the scene; currently when i dolly the axes reference icon became smaller and it's hard to work like this

There is also axis icon in left corner that keeps same scale all the time.

Thank you for the input. I need to dive deeper into the program.

Just to throw this in the mix, I thought this looked like a friendly, slick system in Lightwave “Genoma” - which has some autorig-style concepts presented with simple, powerful, clean rigs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfut_KXamKw [youtube.com]

pezetko

Constantin X
- A RFE for the tree view functionality - when i select an item i want it to open up the corresponding node in the network editor(this will speed up working with very large assets scenes) and parameters - right now you select a scene item in the tree view and it does not change the network editor context and parameters to reflect the new selection;


- a RFE to be able to group the items under a null in the tree view with a simple shortcut(like alt+G or whatever) and the same thing happens at the same time in the network editor;

Switch you Tree View to List View (Network Pane -> List View) then under RMB menu select List Order -> Tree.

Then all this works. You can “group” items with Shift+C. Properties of selected node is displayed in Parameters window etc…

Constantin X
- a RFE to be able to change items order and parents in the tree view so it can help with organizing the scene in take list

You can drag and drop (display) order of items in list (if you change List Order to User defined). You can reparent by drag and drop if Order Type is set to Input Output.

Constantin X
- a RFE for the viewport - the central axes icon( red xyz icon) should not dolly with the scene; currently when i dolly the axes reference icon became smaller and it's hard to work like this

There is also axis icon in left corner that keeps same scale all the time.

After further having the time to test your solutions, i must say there is no where near what i asked for. It's cumbersome and it does not work as i asked. I maintain my requests for RFE's towards SideFX developers. I am talking about scenes with dozens/hundreds of objects and i need to have this functionality in the tree list, not to change my network to list view and then i need to change inputs and order and it still does not function as requested. And if i change one(input order), the other one does not function. I also asked for a very simple thing: group items UNDER A NULL. Your method collapse them under a subnet and this is a very different thing. The only thing that is there from what i asked for is changing context when selecting an item(my network view was blocked). Maybe i am not very clear of what i want, so let me attach a video for you guys. Middle click on an item selects it and all it's child, ctrl+click duplicates the item and so on. I can drag and re-arrange things as i want and i can drag an item inside a group. This is what i am talking about and it's no where near this functionality.

Constantin X
I also asked for a very simple thing: group items UNDER A NULL. Your method collapse them under a subnet and this is a very different thing.

Constantin,
no need to shout there
Please explain to me how is a subnet in houdini different from group in maya or transform group in Softimage? it is the same empty object with transform. What functionality you are missing?

Constantin X
Middle click on an item selects it and all it's child, ctrl+click duplicates the item and so on. I can drag and re-arrange things as i want and i can drag an item inside a group. This is what i am talking about and it's no where near this functionality.

While i do agree that possibility to rearrange nodes with click drag would be awesome, I'd really dislike the “middle click select children thing”(but maybe it can be an option in preference? )

Meanwhile you might want to try Crtl+X/Crtl+V (cut/paste) to reorder and Crtl+C/Crtl+V (copy/paste) to duplicate.

owlYzarc

Constantin X
I also asked for a very simple thing: group items UNDER A NULL. Your method collapse them under a subnet and this is a very different thing.

Constantin,
no need to shout there
Please explain to me how is a subnet in houdini different from group in maya or transform group in Softimage? it is the same empty object with transform. What functionality you are missing?

Constantin X
Middle click on an item selects it and all it's child, ctrl+click duplicates the item and so on. I can drag and re-arrange things as i want and i can drag an item inside a group. This is what i am talking about and it's no where near this functionality.

While i do agree that possibility to rearrange nodes with click drag would be awesome, I'd really dislike the “middle click select children thing”(but maybe it can be an option in preference? )

Meanwhile you might want to try Crtl+X/Crtl+V (cut/paste) to reorder and Crtl+C/Crtl+V (copy/paste) to duplicate.

How can you know someone is shout from reading a text? I put caps so you can understand what i want: items child of a null, not a subnet. Just check the attached video and you will understand what i want. It's up to developers to decide if suggested workflow improvements worth it or not. From my point of view scene management is extremely bad in Houdini, and if they will implement this small changes will do a tremendous service to all users. Sorry, but i don't have time to explain you in detail how scene management can improve your workflow and speed. Just watch the video again and try to replicate that in Houdini. One thing to note though: grouping an item under a null will give you the possibility to add two different animations to the same node(once to the null and once to the items inside it). Right now you can do this only in Network Editor witch is very time consuming and not the way i would like to work with few items, let alone dozens… For example i want to animate the nodes visibility, so i will group them under a null and animate the null visibility, while maintaining the items animations untouched. And this is just a simple trick witch i do so often in my scenes, but there are many more, so again, try to figure it out from the video.

mh, I would wait to name houdini's scene management extremely bad, until You got more comfortable with the software and it's architecture. Many problems only exist, because You try to use application x like application y, and I think that is not that clever plan. Houdini is very network driven

Constantin X
For example i want to animate the nodes visibility, so i will group them under a null and animate the null visibility, while maintaining the items animations untouched. And this is just a simple trick witch i do so often in my scenes, but there are many more, so again, try to figure it out from the video.

I think I understand now what Constantin is looking for.
About doing everything in the tree view or the network editor, well it could be a matter of what you prefer, a well organized network is better than an outliner, spacially for massive scenes.
But about setting something in a subnet and then inherit it to the nodes below, I have to say that is something that many people could miss.
Hirarchies in Houdini and other packages are different, with its good and bad points. One of the reasons becasue Alembic was invented.
So yes, I understand that he misses these way of working because it makes some workflows easier. On the other hand makes scene processing quite slow.
There are workarounds and at the end of the day is not a big deal, but this is probably one of the things that confuses new users a lot.

Constantin X
From my point of view scene management is extremely bad in Houdini, and if they will implement this small changes will do a tremendous service to all users.

It's really counter-productive Constantine… how much truth there is in your statements, that's another story, but in general

a) are you really in a position to render such judgment? Did you ever try to manage production scene in Houdini? Because many of people here are using current setup for working with really large scenes. Many of us think this is actually the best tool for such tasks. I can't say XSI is very good at managing heavy scenes you know neither Maya… Maybe some solution you don't like now would turn out to be helpful once you give them a chance?

There is lots of room for improvements, but improvement shouldn't break things. The NULL workflow you've recorded makes sense only because of lack of subnets. Houdini's scene is organized in directory structure. A real one (it's how hip file is organized isnide too). Subnet is simple a subdirectory and is right way of managing things in such setup. NULL would be completely arbitrary thing here. Let's improve Houdini, not make new app with old problems (and XSI/Maya have real problems with scenes' scalability for a reason).

b) what makes you thinking that small change (any small change for that matter) would make tremendous service to the users? Isn't it magic thinking? You can now group objects inside the subnet, animate group visibility this way. You can do this in network or tree view. It's consistent with rest of the application.

c) finally, this isn't small change. It breaks current workflows in a number of ways violating consistency and users' experience. It doesn't mean you can't advocate it, but, please, keep in mind you're asking a lot.


ps I used was asking for strict attributes' inheritance between objects/subnets in Houdini, so anything I can do with an object, I should be able to do with a subnet (material assignment for example) so I kind of share your point, current workflow needs changes.

SYmek

Constantin X
There is lots of room for improvements, but improvement shouldn't break things. The NULL workflow you've recorded makes sense only because of lack of subnets. Houdini's scene is organized in directory structure. A real one (it's how hip file is organized isnide too). Subnet is simple a subdirectory and is right way of managing things in such setup. NULL would be completely arbitrary thing here. Let's improve Houdini, not make new app with old problems (and XSI/Maya have real problems with scenes' scalability for a reason).
b) what makes you thinking that small change (any small change for that matter) would make tremendous service to the users? Isn't it magic thinking? You can now group objects inside the subnet, animate group visibility this way. You can do this in network or tree view. It's consistent with rest of the application.
c) finally, this isn't small change. It breaks current workflows in a number of ways violating consistency and users' experience. It doesn't mean you can't advocate it, but, please, keep in mind you're asking a lot.
ps I used was asking for strict attributes' inheritance between objects/subnets in Houdini, so anything I can do with an object, I should be able to do with a subnet (material assignment for example) so I kind of share your point, current workflow needs changes.

I appreciate your help earlier so i will try to answer you. I opened up one of my heavy scenes in Houdini, and it's workflow it's not on par with other big apps up there. This of course regarding my experience using all major apps, and my way of doing things. So you can say Houdini is doing things differently, but let's try to make it more user friendly. And by user friendly i mean that if i start to use a program, after 15 years of teaching and creating, i have the idea that i need to do major things right away. I am not very fund of the idea that i need to do many steps to change the interface and so on, just to find out that i still can't organize my scene in the scene tree view as i can in all big players. This way i don't need 3 years of studies to group items under a null, and then add an item to that group and group the null and one external node under an other null so i can layer up few different animations in few seconds. Because you know right now it's not very obvious for first time user how to add multiple child to the same parent. Funny thing you mentioned XSI, because all i need to do(and by the way i have more then just transfo groups i also have simple groups, grouping under a null etc) is to hit a plus sign(or right click ‘add to group’) and done. And i discovered all this on my second use of the XSI by my own, without resorting to support or community. So i was able to adapt my knowledge to the new program without to much hassle, not so on Houdini. It's so different from anything out there, that you just can't take it and start to work with it and find your way while you working. It's a good thing or a bad thing? Maybe to you it's a good thing, but for new comers and big studios out there not so much. And this is why your user base is not very high(talent pool) and in turn this is why studios move towards Maya for their jobs. And if i can't find out jobs using Houdini, then i will go towards Maya. See? All this from user friendly interface… The changes i am talking about are only on the tree view, so nothing will really affect the way you work right now in network. Sorry to contradict you, but i was at some VFX exchange seminars and one of the most used samples from users of different programs(houdini too yes) was using nulls to animate on top of your objects. It's a standard trick, and if you have one more way of doing things in Houdini(subnets) cool, but let's first implement missing standards ok? You need to understand one thing. There are few industry standards and Houdini needs to adhere to them if it wants to grow. In this business it's all about inter-operation. I might do something in studio Maya proprietary tools, and then move to Houdini for particles workflow. If one finds out Houdini to be so much different that it can't use it in first hour, it's a dead duck. If i can't group my items in the Tree View(you must admit that this is the first thing max, maya, xsi or any other major package user will do to organize his/her scene) i will move along to more green pastures. I want to work, not to spend my time learning new ways of doing old things. So i might just move back to Maya, right? I know it's not fair, but this is just how the things work in this business. And it's a shame because once i started to dive in i find out to be vastly superior to Maya. Well, once bifrost will mature it's going to be a tough time for Houdini. So let's focus on making this amazing application more user friendly. It's not about ‘we are great, no need to change, go back to your xsi’, it's about let's make it suited to as many peoples as possible, don't you think?

Constantin X
How can you know someone is shout from reading a text?

Well, I consider caps shouting

Constantin X
Sorry, but i don't have time to explain you in detail how scene management can improve your workflow and speed. Just watch the video again and try to replicate that in Houdini.

Sorry to hear that, you don't have time to properly ask a question and and still expect other people(other members and developers) to waste their time trying to understand you and at the end of the day you loose by not getting the answers you look for
Will try to replicate all the things in that video thou.

Constantin X
One thing to note though: grouping an item under a null will give you the possibility to add two different animations to the same node(once to the null and once to the items inside it). Right now you can do this only in Network Editor witch is very time consuming and not the way i would like to work with few items, let alone dozens…

And you cant do it with a subnet? have you tried?
You dont need network editor to animate subnets and objects

Constantin X
For example i want to animate the nodes visibility, so i will group them under a null and animate the null visibility, while maintaining the items animations untouched. And this is just a simple trick witch i do so often in my scenes, but there are many more, so again, try to figure it out from the video.

Subnet has visibility flag which hides everything in it, for animation you'd probably want to use “Subnet>Display (toggle+value)”

P.S. To save your precious time, here's an example

Constantin X
If one finds out Houdini to be so much different that it can't use it in first hour, it's a dead duck.

The dead luck seems to be moving a lot
Honestly here I cant agree with you, I dont how many tools you master or years of experience.
Our scenes cant open in Maya just because of the amount of objects/nodes.
The outliner collapse.
Thanks god we have Houdini and a network editor. So yes we use pretty complex scenes and we use the network editor and we are very happy with it and save our day in every show.
Is different, yep, do you have to make the same mistakes that Maya/SI/MAX/LW has done in the past? NOT.
By user friendly you mean user convention. Yes there is convention to have hirarchical trees to manage a scene.
Is this the only way or the best way, it depends.
For complex scenes definitely not always.
So if you expect Houdini to work in the same way as SI or Maya, well in some areas is similar in other is trying to adapt workflows to make things easier for new people.
But certain areas of the tool are the flagships, is what makes a difference. Managing scenes from a network editor is one of this areas, so if you find this too different or disruptive for your work and you feel you dont have the time or is not worth to try, probably it is better to use a more conventional tool like Maya.
It depends of your priorities.
But please dont make assumptions and be so categoric with statements like Houdini scene management sucks because there are people in this forum with a little bit of experience also and probably they have a different opinion
Play nice, I am not shouting.