Wow. After all those years getting the mantra surface shader into decent shape, suddenly I have a shader that requires me to look in multiple tabs to find all the elements that are affecting a channel.

Why are texture maps on their own tab? Each texture map should be nestled with it's parametric controls, otherwise how can I see all the parts of my channel at a glance? This is terrible for troubleshooting.

Boooo.

Nick

I can't say I'm a fan either, the Classic shader's UI is much stronger IMO, with things nicely grouped.

I've never been a fan of the Mantra surface/Classic shader. The material doesn't take Fresnel into account when doing coat layering, can't do glossy Fresnel (roughness affects Fresnel falloff), and only recently had metallic layer parameters added. The parameter grouping/organization leaves a lot to be desired. Index of refraction is hidden away in a ‘settings’ tab. Often, changing from the defaults to a given basic material style requires visiting every tab to either enable or disable the layers. You can do the same action by moving a single slider on the principled shader. Sometimes having the extra tweak parameters is useful, but more often just leads to parameter overload. Try to plug in one connector and spend 5 minutes searching through a massive list.

Reworking the category organization is a general consequence of having far fewer parameters, but as well as grouping the input pins on the node. The traditional BSDF-based grouping doesn't make sense with the principled shader. The idea with the principled shader is to abstract the physical/visual qualities away from the individual shader layers. This way a single setting can modify multiple layers, while staying reasonable constrained to plausible materials.

I'm on the fence about how textures are stored away on a separate tab. On the one hand, numerous superfluous pins can be grouped away from the important ones, on the other, the textures are not visible in context. I'd rather the textures not be integrated to the material. This keeps the interface clear and light, and when you need a texture, it's obvious what parameter is affected since the pin connection grays out the parameter in the UI.

I've heard arguments in favor of both layouts here and elsewhere now. Would anybody else care to express their thoughts?

Is it not that useful to see all applied textures in one place, or is it simply much more important to see everything that affects one parameter in one place?

It would be easy enough to change if need be.

I'm probably not the best to make a comment.

Been using Houdini about 2 years.

Prior to 16 I used shaders sparingly while I learned other aspects of Houdini more in depth.

However, I did go over the many tutorials and played around with the Mantra Surface/Classic Shader.

I felt before 16 it was a bit cumbersome and more difficult to understand/learn.

But with 16 and the Material Network, Principled Shader, available vop nodes with Tab…I'm finding my learning is progressing much faster and I am able to incorporate creative ideas much more easily.

Definitely a desired ‘improvement’ in H16 for myself.

Of course, as I have said before - My previous experience was limited. Perhaps I would feel differently if I had already been using Houdini and the ‘old’ shaders for a longer period of time with a more established work flow.

Am not a fan of the Principled Shader but am trying to adapt.

Would strongly prefer to see textures located where they're assigned… not in a separate tab.

Would also prefer to have separate filter options for each texture.

Being new to Houdini/Mantra, but been around Arnold, VRay and Redshift etc. for a while, I have to say, the way to do translucent materials seems incredibly cryptic to me.