C4D R20 announcement reactions

   2174   10   0
User Avatar
Member
283 posts
Joined: Jan. 2018
Offline
Since many of us are coming from C4D, I was wondering what others around here's response was to Maxon's new R20 announcement and new C4D features.


Volume modeling is of course something that Houdini has had for quite some time, any thoughts on C4D's implementation as compared to Houdini?

Also Fields is another feature that most advanced Houdini users utilize on a regular basis through Attribute Wrangles.

CAD format import is interesting. Also ProRender is pretty cool, which of course makes me wonder if Houdini 17 will feature some sort of GPU based Mantra.

My personal thoughts are that, although some of these new features are interesting, there is nothing particularly compelling in R20 that would make me want to go back.

Anyway, I'm just curious about other people's impressions and thoughts about the new announcement.
Edited by Midphase - Aug. 2, 2018 21:34:21
>>Kays
User Avatar
Member
135 posts
Joined: May 2016
Offline
I was hoping for completely new UV tools - didn't happen: nothing for BodyPaint again: VDB looks good but will have to wait to see it in operation from normal users: ProRender in all but Prime and nodal materials is pretty cool but for now unavailable for ProRender. it has a lot going for it but still falls short of the out of the park hit most were hoping for. I'm done with paying MSA to Maxon.
User Avatar
Member
470 posts
Joined: June 2006
Offline
i don't like to compare because the tool is just one part the other one is the artist.

cinema 4d is easy to learn and you can get a result quickly, a lot of these artist don't have the capability to learn maya or houdini where the full potential you only get when you know the technical part (incl. programming).

my view on cinema 4d:
i'm not a cinema 4d user but i find the update quiet good it looks like they updating the core and that is a massive huge task, that doesn't give product features just a lot of work for the future.
congratulation for this progress!


note: please change the title(example: C4D R20 thoughts), houdini artist don't need to compare they know what they have got!
User Avatar
Member
283 posts
Joined: Jan. 2018
Offline
mandrake0
note: please change the title(example: C4D R20 thoughts), houdini artist don't need to compare they know what they have got!

I changed the title, but keep in mind that pretty much most Houdini users that I personally know come from being a C4D user, so some comparisons are unavoidable.

Yes, we know what we have, but in the back of my mind, there is always a wee bit of longing for the relative ease that C4D provided. It's a bit like having a new girlfriend who is incredibly smart, talented and good at so many things…but sex with the old one was more fun!
>>Kays
User Avatar
Member
103 posts
Joined: June 2017
Offline
I would guess that this would not entice any Houdini users towards C4D, as most of the new features are in nodal materials and motion graphics - something that Houdini has had for years. The deficiencies that continue in C4D (inability to alter properties of polygons, points, vertices, and edges) at a low level, the lack of UV tools, lack of fluids and particles without plugins, etc. would make it a step backwards. C4D still benefits from a lot of third party software (for rendering, materials, particles, fluids, UV mapping, character rigging, etc) to be useful, unlike Houdini. It seems like the major benefit in C4D is motion graphics for people who don't want to do any coding and ease of use for people just starting in 3D. For people who are used to programming in Houdini, I don't see this getting any notice. Most likely, people new to 3D software and those who are dabbling in it for After Effects use, the new C4D would be an exciting release. Although people on the C4D forums seem to think Houdini is a good program for someone unwilling to learn VEX, I don't think that is true. As a relatively new user of Houdini myself, I am still faster modeling in other programs, but everytime I learn something in Houdini in a project, I can reuse this for other projects. I see a better path (and less expensive one) in Houdini indie.
Edited by Island - Aug. 3, 2018 13:58:19
User Avatar
Member
3787 posts
Joined: July 2007
Offline
I personally like how clever the C4D developers are in designing all the features in flexible, robust and user friendly way

with this update it looks like they identified a lot of use cases of Volumes and made generalized tools that work with a lot of other tools out of the box, which increases productivity and creativity much more than just having all the building blocks, but needing the experience to be able to put them together and achieve cool results which is the case in Houdini

that's been the case with C4D since I remember, so while Houdini offers low level building blocks to do almost anything, C4D offers generalized workflow solutions ready for rapid prototyping without any technical knowledge, but still keeps it open for more technical people

great example is rigging, which in my opinions is much more advanced and procedural in C4D than in Houdini out of the box, especially Xpresso, interaction tag and open system for building and using rigging template modules and C-motion

so in my opinion C4D is definitely interesting and a great choice for many tasks, but more over an amazing inspiration for developing simpler and more clever workflows in Houdini based on C4D tools
Edited by tamte - Aug. 3, 2018 14:50:23
Tomas Slancik
FX Supervisor
Method Studios, NY
User Avatar
Member
103 posts
Joined: June 2017
Offline
Cinema 4d is not known for its rigging. Many users switched to using Cactus Dan’s plugins due to issues with the native system. It is true that xpresso works well with rigs and there are a lot of auto rigs available, but it has issues with joint bends, gimbal locking, tying morph deformation to bends, etc. I don’t know how Houdini tools compare, but Maya is far ahead.

Still, this is a big release for Maxon and will allow many to create complex motion graphics fairly easily. Nodal textures are a step forward, so long as you are using the physical renderer that comes with C4D.

I have found complex rigs in C4D to be pretty slow, and I don’t see that particular issue resolved in this update. There is supposed to be a fix on PSD morphs with the upcoming release.

Cinema 4D is impressive both for its ease of use and stability. In those two areas, it reigns supreme.
Edited by Island - Aug. 8, 2018 14:39:53
User Avatar
Member
3787 posts
Joined: July 2007
Offline
Island
Cinema 4d is not known for its rigging
that may be true, I'm not aware of all the bugs or the issues

I was talking more from the workflow standpoint, which in my opinion far superior to most other rigging solutions offer (considering XSI ICE and Fabric are now dead for the public)
mostly due to already modular nature and high flexibility, but also ease of use, but don't want to start a rigging war, was just stating my C4D experience and appreciation to their progressive thinking in UX
Edited by tamte - Aug. 4, 2018 23:12:15
Tomas Slancik
FX Supervisor
Method Studios, NY
User Avatar
Member
17 posts
Joined: Feb. 2017
Offline
Though I come from C4D, I always appreciate high-efficiency black-box in C4D, most people only want a efficient tool.
I recreated many C4D tools in Houdini for convenience.

And I only be interested in R20's modified motion graphic module, want to see more videos about it. (New sound effector in R19 is amazing)

I have watched some simple demos and introductions about R20's field of mograph.
It can be rebuild in Houdini by Group Create SOP (keep in Bounding Regions) and xyzdist VEX func.
Just like attribute transfer SOP (but this SOP use metaball to calculate the transfer dist)

At last, I do like the appearance of R20's shader node.
Edited by zengchen01 - Aug. 11, 2018 12:31:43
User Avatar
Member
3 posts
Joined: June 2018
Offline
Our shop uses C4D for some things, though we have mostly migrated our motion design work to Houdini. R20 looks like the biggest release they have had since R16, definitely some interesting features. Nodal based textures and ProRender I can leave as we mostly use Redshift and Renderman now, but they will probably be a good intro to those types of features for the less technical user. As others have said, fields and volumes Houdini has had since forever, though the new fields in R20 do look intriguing and volumes will hopefully solve the horrible boolean C4D currently has.

I've always appreciated the speed you can pull together and mock up a scene in C4D and still use it for more simple jobs, but any complex motion design is all Houdini. I have always had two main beefs with C4D, it looks like they have not addressed one of them and the jury is out on the other. One thing that has always bothered me about C4D is it is very plugin dependent (the same problem I have with After Effects). You want any sort of decent feature-set you need to buy an extra $1k-$2k in plugins per seat. You just get so much more with Houdini for the same total price. The other problem I have had with C4D is that it's always been single-threaded for most operations (again, same problem with After Effects). Hopefully they have made some gains in that areas. Anyone who has spent time in larger projects in C4D knows that once you get above a certain number of objects, it slows to a crawl.
User Avatar
Member
173 posts
Joined: Feb. 2013
Offline
I've used C4D on and off since first hearing about it in the 1990s, and have always been impressed with its clean design and approachability.

The straightforward property panels and in-place viewport effects make it easy to toy around without committing to a full render, and it looks like R20 will further improve such interaction.

Viewport menu:


Camera settings:
  • Quick Links