Hi, I am trying to get apprentice to run and I get crashes every time the licence server tries to install a license.

I tried both the normal installer, in which case it crashes when you select the non commercial license. As well as the licence server standalone, in which case the crash occurs right after you choose “install license”.

I have a working internet connection (wifi), and is running a freshly installed Xp on a macbook pro that seems to work just fine in all other aspects. I am running ati drivers v 8.24.00.

I would very much like to try houdini and its famous node system …

What OS [sidefx.com] are you running?

J.C.

“and is running a freshly installed Xp on a macbook pro”

In this case Xp pro, with service packs and updates. Not runinng the Xp firewall, and I tested with and without Sygate firewall. AV can also be ruled out. The computer is also very stable in OSX – I hardly use XP but have not had problems there either so it isn't likely to be bad memory or harddisk as an example …

I suspect the crash you are getting is due to OpenGL issues with your video card. Try upgrading to the latest version of the drivers. If that doesn't work then try setting the HOUDINI_OGL_SOFTWARE environment variable.

• Workstation-class OpenGL graphics card (such as from NVidia, ATI, and 3DLabs)
  
• Minimum resolution: 1024 x 768; Recommended resolution: 1920 x 1200 (widescreen)
  
• Color depth of 16-bit+ required with 32-bit+ (“true color”) recommended
  
• Requires support for OpenGL 1.2 or later; Takes advantage of OpenGL 2.0 support if available;
  
• Hardware-accelerated OpenGL required for optimum performance
  
• Performance may suffer with complex scenes on non-workstation graphics cards and on laptops
  
• Houdini does not require support for Direct3D (all viewports and interfaces use OpenGL)
  
  

Sorry, missed that. I haven't been following the “run windows on mac” thing, but I assume it's not like an emulator, but a full install?

Anyway, ATI issues with Houdini are pretty common, might not be that though. I dont know which card they're installing in macs nowadays.

If anyone else has managed to run this platform, they'll likely speak up. I doubt it's memory.

J.C.

OGL issue makes sense, I'll work on the drivers, thanks.

Its a full working booted XP under boot camp, not an emulated version. While there are improvements under way, generally emulations means issues with openGL hardware accelerated graphics. In a few years though you will likely be able to run the houdini pc version on OSX with insignificant slowdown, through crossover.

Ah, OK. I know a guy here running the latest Mac/boot camp thing and there's definitely major OGL issues, even with relatively simple 2D programs. This would not be this best platform to be evaluating a 3D program on, unfortunately.

J.C.

“This would not be this best platform to be evaluating a 3D program on, unfortunately.”

This is plain wrong. I have been running lots of different OpenGL heavy 3D apps and games for almost a year on my machine without most any issue that doesn't also pertain to other ati (mobile) gpu's, mac or not. And frankly they have all been minor. I suspect you are talking about running 3D apps on the intel GMA accelerator, eg. on macbook or mac minis that doesn't have a proper graphics card, or your friend has problems with his installation, drivers or hardware. I have read dozens and dozens of reports on Xp performance and issues on the macbook pro, and crazy mac only OpenGL issues aint one of them – The only minor setback for a macbook pro versus equivalent PC hardware is that the graphics chip is clocked a bit low, something which can be adjusted with ati tool if you keep an eye on temperatures and perhaps adjust the fan higher with input remapper. And while it would be good to have this on a higher setting for 3D use , then for everything else it would obviously be a tradeoff towards battery capacity, heat and noise.

Installing XP proper on this machine have been simpler than on many other portables I have had to do it on, where the restore/ windows CD that comes with the machine includes programs that makes the machine not work properly and look ugly. For certain notebooks, the practical solution is to buy an extra XP license, since there is no option to get the system back to anything but the bloated state the manufacturer delivered in …

The single thing not currently working is good imaging backup of my XP partition (acronis), but there is little need for it and I also have a rather crude solution where I am able to use a mix of touch, file copy and a fresh reinstall to get XP back to its recent state if it goes to pooh. For OSX I have a perfect solution though that is even free and far better than anything available for XP.

My issue is due to a driver problem after a recent fresh install of a different version of XP, and it also affected another program that worked before the reinstall. I just didn't realize the license server would use OpenGL, but it even mentions an opengl related file in the error message and I will get this fixed soon enough.

I'm basing my “plain wrong” comment on an experience a couple of days ago with a coworker running boot camp, and he couldn't even display 2D images in a composite program. Take that for what it's worth.

J.C.

Well I don't mean to be too rude but I love this computer. Not so much how it looks, but how flawlessly it works, both in Xp and the rock stable OSX. I As I said I have not had a single problem in XP before this reinstall. I find it to be the ideal machine for 3D, not to mention software development and running a one man office where it severely outshines anything I have experienced on XP the last seventeen years. Boot camp Xp, in about every single case I have heard it will have normal XP problems, not Apple Xp problems.

Houdini on a MacBook Seems to work well, at least under Linux:
http://www.rickwalia.com/2006/11/27/houdini-linux-macbook-pro-oh-my/ [rickwalia.com]

Dragos

Maya had similar problems about opengl stability in the past, but they solved it and now Maya works almost flawlessly on consumer graphic cards. I believe if SESI works on more opengl compatibility, they will gain more users. Houdini may target the high end studios as userbase, so in some perspective supporting only the high end graphic hardware may seem allright, however the popularity of a software package is based on its accessibility too. I remember the times when Softimage and Power Animator were only available on IRIX platform, that was the time when LW, 3DS and other packagas became more and more popular. If SESI remembers that thousands of potential Houdini operators have no/limited access to the high end hardware they will make Houdini much more popular in the future.

Houdini 9's UI rendering scheme has been entirely overhauled for precisely this reason. It should be significantly more compatible with consumer-level 3D cards, as well as faster (since we're now using more game-like rendering).

Joe
Houdini 9's UI rendering scheme has been entirely overhauled for precisely this reason. It should be significantly more compatible with consumer-level 3D cards, as well as faster (since we're now using more game-like rendering).

In the past i have tried to get my hands on Houdini more than once, but everytime i tried, i have bumped into a very annoying technical problem like graphic card issue or something like that and lost my appetite for it. But with the release of 9.0 Public beta i have found another chance and this time i understand what you've been working on, it works, but not without glitches here and there. For example mantra renders very slow even the totally empty areas, or it randomly crashes but it works now, it is learnable My point is, what you have done with the interface is great, for those who are scared the hell out of interface and gone away from houdini, great information architecture and great interface design well done, but you shouldn't stop there. My expectation is that you improve the opengl architechture further more untill the great majority of consumer cards can run houdini smoothly, just llike they run lw, max, maya, softimage, c4d etc etc.

I've never seen Quadro on my eyes nor sat around it. Houdini from first version I know, 5.5, had no problems with any GPU as long as it supports OpenGL properly. GPUs that don't do that are Matrox's and some ATI's namely.
All application which base their GUI on OGL (like Shake or Houdini) suffer in such a case. I understand an opinion that Quadro in modern world are little passe but I wouldn't agree with an opinion that Houdini is some kind of Irix/Quadro monster. I've worked on at least ten computers since 5.5, both in Linux and WinNT/XP - small issues? ok, backbuffer, fonts etc. but nothing more then that. On the over hand I had thousand of problems with my ATI Mobility.

The question is which apps from you lists uses OGL in their GUI toolkit as Houdini does…

cheers,
sy.

The problem is every other application works smoothly on my machine except for Houdini. The specifics of the problem was already explained in another thread so i did not start a new one however i have added my comment to it, and no developer has confirmed or denied it looks like untested. When every other application runs smoothly on my machine i naturally tend to blame Houdini for whining about my ati. I am not talking about back buffer or font issues i can live with them, but mantra renderer is working extremely slow and it's been explained to be a graphic card issue for ati users, which seems pretty odd to me. And that is something hard to live with. I have already decided to build up a new system probably with a quadro card dedicated to Houdini, the problems will go away for me, however, left unfixed it will stay there for the rest of the newcomers.

I must agree that your wish that Houdini should work smoothly on as many platforms as possible is reasonable. But please remember also that you're using unsupported hardware with Houdini and it's not fair to judge any application on such basis. Houdini works just fine with low-end gforce devices.

As to slow mantra rendering did you try to render on disk or only to mplay?
I don't think any graphic card issue can influence on-disk-rendering.

Of course i accept the fact that i am running an unsupported graphic card, that's why i decided to move to a new system dedicated to Houdini. But if i couldn't have afforded that, maybe i would have given up my desire to learn it. All i am saying is that there's a huge number of animators like me, if SESI can find a way to make them happy this software will reach to a larger user-base hence the popularity. Why shouldn't it happen, every other 3D package succeeded to do this, i believe Houdini is much more powerful than any of them.

Here's the topic about the Mantra problem : http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_forum&Itemid=172&page=viewtopic&t=8711 [sidefx.com]

i totaly agree with mertyamak on his comments. maybe the problem is sesi tends to serve for high profile professionals.and a newcomer feels very very strange on the first(actualy more)try. than you feel that “man i guess i can walk now” but the problems keep poping araound(90% are user failure for sure),but some of them are hardware related.guys in the imageworks,or D2 may have not any problems at all.but most of us have.big guys can make sesi people to give them any representation on what they want to know,but on the other half of the globe i don't have such previliges(talking abaout particular clases that sesi comes up with time to time) one thing i realy don't understand ,is ati in sesi's blacklist. this is the very sotware which is configuration picky i've ever seen,and this must be overcomed in the future one way or other. renders are incrideably slow. this maybe due to the lack of intelegance and knowledge,but i beleive that people interested with houdini are, already very donated guys in their whatever software.

people wish to render any particle sim(or anything) as easy and looking good,as they are doing whith their old software. you can learn how to make simulations,no problem with this. actualy i feel very comfortable with it but when it comes to shading and rendering it is a real pain in the ass.

so sesi, you are still on the high hills,please come to basics. dramatic change on the ui is making me feel that you are thinking abaout to be “wide spectrum” sooner or later. but for now you are “pathogen specific”

wow i wrote a bit. i realy but realy want to use it. but just a little help.


thank you for your time.