Ok,
So this will be like a converging topic. There are disparate topics: modeling, animation etc, but i want to have a topic where we can talk about what we think Houdini misses to be a great production tool(no matter what your field of interest/expertise will be). So i will start with my own list of missing features(this are only related to my workflow). I don't know if this subject have being debated, but i think there is a LOT of room for improvements into NURBES/CURVES sector. What i will need on top of what is already there will be:

- increased number of primitives - rectangle, spiral, ring etc;

- adding functions for curve editing: add/remove point, CHAMFER, join, split etc;

- 2D boolean operations;

- adding more default options into primitives(like slice for example);

- extracting intersecting curve from a project curve/carve object with curve operation(this might be in place);

I find there is a serious lack of features into this aspect of modeling witch i extensively use in production. An upgrade into this area will be more then welcome, crucial to my modeling/animation work. There are also few other missing features:

- layers and/or animation layers(this is different from NLA witch works with clips; this works on keyframe level, not motion clips);

- a serious(or better said total) lack of support for importing CAD files

Well, almost no one finds creativity into product shots/animations, but let's face it it's a huge market and puts food on the table. A huge chunk of my workflow involves product shots/animations and i find out that i can't import anything directly into Houdini. We can debate on this(Houdini is for special effects bla-bla-bla), but as long as there are PBR rendering and amazing animation/particles/fluids into Houdini, why not use them to create all type of product shots/animations? I need to import Solidworks, CAD and Parasolid(maybe other formats too like Rhino) models so i can create product functioning animations and product renders. With Mantra being so good, this will be a huge hit. And if we are here few more things: why have so much amazing features but almost no presets at all? How hard can it be to include:

- few dozens Matra pbr materials(the most often used ones) with variation possibilities: glass; metal, wood, concrete, pavement etc;

- few dozens of L-System presets(fir tree, grass, decorative plants etc);

- a small but well thought library of the most used objects;

- few already textured and animated scenes(witch can be modified by the user): mountain, plain/hills, beach etc;

- a much improved daylight system(Cinema 4d is THE best example to look at)

So far this is what i would like to see added into Houdini. The CAD importers can be a separate/pay-for module like it is on Modo, or it can be integrated into main app. My conclusion after few months of sporadic use is that it's a fantastic application. It just needs few small add-ons and it will become a huge hit.
Thanks,
C

So no one sees any missing features, no one wants anything to be added to the software? Well then SideFX should celebrate, all is great as it is, no reason to improve…

I guess since there is already a Wishlist thread serving this purpose, people may not want to repeat themselves here, so just feel free to join the discussion there
https://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_forum&Itemid=172&page=viewtopic&t=30366 [sidefx.com]

Two great differences between this thread and that one. This one is dedicated to XSI users first and foremost. Second, this is not a wishlist, this is what the people(former/current XSI user) discover that the Houdini it misses to become production ready compared to the competition. I will continue to right down whatever i will discover after version 14 shows up. Looks like people prefer to write down into dedicated sections - animation, modeling etc. I just tried to condense into one thread….

Constantin X
I find there is a serious lack of features into this aspect of modeling witch i extensively use in production. An upgrade into this area will be more then welcome, crucial to my modeling/animation work. There are also few other missing features:
C

We have to wait what the new release brings i think they will solve some problems in modeling and animation.

Constantin X
- a serious(or better said total) lack of support for importing CAD files
C

We are using in the company polytrans and even this converter has problems with some files we get from the customer. it's surly a task that sesi can do better but it's a big one. even cad software can't support all formats correctly.

Constantin X
- few dozens Matra pbr materials(the most often used ones) with variation possibilities: glass; metal, wood, concrete, pavement etc;
C

count me in for this. i think this situation is more a current problem than befor most of the money came from the big studios and they have a department for this. you can have a look at dany lyons shader: http://www.orbolt.com/asset/_danylyon::PBR_layered_material [orbolt.com]

Constantin X
- few dozens of L-System presets(fir tree, grass, decorative plants etc);
C

i know it would be nice to have more but mostly when you want default trees speedtree is today a good solution :-)

Constantin X
- a small but well thought library of the most used objects;
C

i have made a RFE for a better integration from orbolt and other stores assets. like double tab in the network pane to search directly in the orbolt store or integrations of flickr, istock photos because when you have integrate a store or a portal that has millions of images and assest that are CC it's get used when you don't have to search in all the portals by yourself.

Constantin X
- few already textured and animated scenes(witch can be modified by the user): mountain, plain/hills, beach etc;
C

there are some beach as a example :-)
there also tutorials on cmivfx for google maps integration.

Constantin X
- a much improved daylight system(Cinema 4d is THE best example to look at)
C

is the Environment Light => Sky Environment Light Map => Sun so bad?
there is also the possability to integrate the compositor in to the light system so you can get a very simple version of a HDR Studio.
https://vimeo.com/90627020 [vimeo.com]

few dozens of L-System presets(fir tree, grass, decorative plants etc);

Node parameter presets are stored in the node menu in the parameter dialog (gear icon). The Lsystem SOP has roughly that many. Granted, the location of the presents under the gear menu is not the most intuitive spot, and others have RFE'd for a separate icon menu for presets.

mandrake0
We are using in the company polytrans and even this converter has problems with some files we get from the customer. it's surly a task that sesi can do better but it's a big one. even cad software can't support all formats correctly.

is the Environment Light => Sky Environment Light Map => Sun so bad?
there is also the possability to integrate the compositor in to the light system so you can get a very simple version of a HDR Studio.
https://vimeo.com/90627020 [vimeo.com]

Well, i think the Foundry find out a solution for the CAD importers. They have Power Translators(hope i gave the correct name) witch does exactly this; there is also a ridiculous priced app(keyshot if i am not mistaken) witch can import all major CAD files. I don't know if SideFX wants to go this route, but there is a huge market, so who knows. I am just saying what is in my workflow and where they can add features witch i am sure they will hold value into any small/medium production facility.

Yea, i don't want to be bad, but compared to Cinema 4D daylight system(i think they call it Sky or something) Environment Light is not that good(to put it gently). There is a lot to be improved in there and i hope we will see some work into this area.

As for the presets, my idea is that they are missing because Houdini was all the time a large/huge facility tool. And they all have proprietary tools/worflows/presets. So SideFX did not have any motivation/reason to put any type of presets. Now that the studios go bankrupt in chain and there are very hard times, SideFX it's targeting small/medium/freelancers. On this scenario you need to take into account that the projects are very different. Small/low payment projects with a very short deadline. In this environment you NEED presets in all complex aspects for very quick turn around. Basically you need to be more in line with generalist applications. And although Houdini is light years ahead of any app on the market, they still need to appeal to the artist with a quick turn-around deadline. For this type of market Orbolt with low to very low prices might be a solution. If Houdini gets a large adoption in small/medium/freelancer, we will see it in Orbolt too is my guess. Until then it's in a bad need for presets in all key aspects, especially shaders/lighting and object libraries.

twod

few dozens of L-System presets(fir tree, grass, decorative plants etc);

Node parameter presets are stored in the node menu in the parameter dialog (gear icon). The Lsystem SOP has roughly that many. Granted, the location of the presents under the gear menu is not the most intuitive spot, and others have RFE'd for a separate icon menu for presets.

Thank you for pointing this out. I really need to go trough that list and see how it is. Looks like i find out a new task for today….

UPDATE: After checking the presets, they are there. But i am talking about something like in the attached picture, with textures and ready to be used as they are without any user input.

For someone who came from XSI I think you got used to non existing CAD support I agree that SESI should give some love to DXF and EPS/AI importers. Now I used Blender for DXF and EPS, both importers are much much better than in Houdini.

SreckoM
For someone who came from XSI I think you got used to non existing CAD support I agree that SESI should give some love to DXF and EPS/AI importers. Now I used Blender for DXF and EPS, both importers are much much better than in Houdini.

Yea, that's true, i am used to lack of CAD support. But to be honest up until last few months i almost never used CAD models. Since last year though, more and more works involved working with client's CAD models. I guess i can use Modo with Power Translators as an addition to Houdini, but Modo has huge issues with Alembic and fbx importers. Not sure how well exports though…

These were my feelings when i started but then you realise that you should switch how you think about Houdini and the workflow, instead if having “packed tools” you have “tool components”, more granular, more powerful and certainly liberating.

Surely enough proper CAD data support would be great, animation layers, a daylight system (with a nice interface) would be most welcomed, etc… but you will soon realise you don't really want an specialised tool to remove points given you have already the “Delete SOP” which allows you to do that and more.

I will try to point you to some existing tools so you can find your way, hope that helps.


- Adding functions for curve editing : Check the Delete SOP, Carve SOP, Point SOP and certainly Wrangle SOP.

- Having primitives with slicing, you have them but works only on certain types of geometry, for example, you can “dice” it if it is a poly mesh but not if it is a pure primitive. And really that is what you really want. Also, you should think in the various steps, Houdini tends to have a step by step process rather than one tool that tries to do too much.

- CAD data can be imported via ives but and it is quite good but it is not as modern as the current CAD data formats like STEP, unfortunately that is not being addressed yet.

The presets for Lsystems may be a good idea at first but surely enough you will probably want to do grass with fur instead or curves, or instances, or…

The PBR materials is 100% necessary and something i have been banging about recently so I would love to see the next release on that respect.

Again, good ideas you are throwing our there and I am sure they are reading it but I think it would be great to also dive a bit more on some of these things that are already there in a less obvious but more powerful form.

hope it helps
jb

Constantin X
Ok,
So this will be like a converging topic. There are disparate topics: modeling, animation etc, but i want to have a topic where we can talk about what we think Houdini misses to be a great production tool(no matter what your field of interest/expertise will be). So i will start with my own list of missing features(this are only related to my workflow). I don't know if this subject have being debated, but i think there is a LOT of room for improvements into NURBES/CURVES sector. What i will need on top of what is already there will be:

- increased number of primitives - rectangle, spiral, ring etc;

- adding functions for curve editing: add/remove point, CHAMFER, join, split etc;

- 2D boolean operations;

- adding more default options into primitives(like slice for example);

- extracting intersecting curve from a project curve/carve object with curve operation(this might be in place);

I find there is a serious lack of features into this aspect of modeling witch i extensively use in production. An upgrade into this area will be more then welcome, crucial to my modeling/animation work. There are also few other missing features:

- layers and/or animation layers(this is different from NLA witch works with clips; this works on keyframe level, not motion clips);

- a serious(or better said total) lack of support for importing CAD files

Well, almost no one finds creativity into product shots/animations, but let's face it it's a huge market and puts food on the table. A huge chunk of my workflow involves product shots/animations and i find out that i can't import anything directly into Houdini. We can debate on this(Houdini is for special effects bla-bla-bla), but as long as there are PBR rendering and amazing animation/particles/fluids into Houdini, why not use them to create all type of product shots/animations? I need to import Solidworks, CAD and Parasolid(maybe other formats too like Rhino) models so i can create product functioning animations and product renders. With Mantra being so good, this will be a huge hit. And if we are here few more things: why have so much amazing features but almost no presets at all? How hard can it be to include:

- few dozens Matra pbr materials(the most often used ones) with variation possibilities: glass; metal, wood, concrete, pavement etc;

- few dozens of L-System presets(fir tree, grass, decorative plants etc);

- a small but well thought library of the most used objects;

- few already textured and animated scenes(witch can be modified by the user): mountain, plain/hills, beach etc;

- a much improved daylight system(Cinema 4d is THE best example to look at)

So far this is what i would like to see added into Houdini. The CAD importers can be a separate/pay-for module like it is on Modo, or it can be integrated into main app. My conclusion after few months of sporadic use is that it's a fantastic application. It just needs few small add-ons and it will become a huge hit.
Thanks,
C

jordibares
These were my feelings when i started but then you realise that you should switch how you think about Houdini and the workflow, instead if having “packed tools” you have “tool components”, more granular, more powerful and certainly liberating.

Surely enough proper CAD data support would be great, animation layers, a daylight system (with a nice interface) would be most welcomed, etc… but you will soon realise you don't really want an specialised tool to remove points given you have already the “Delete SOP” which allows you to do that and more.

I will try to point you to some existing tools so you can find your way, hope that helps.


- Adding functions for curve editing : Check the Delete SOP, Carve SOP, Point SOP and certainly Wrangle SOP.

- Having primitives with slicing, you have them but works only on certain types of geometry, for example, you can “dice” it if it is a poly mesh but not if it is a pure primitive. And really that is what you really want. Also, you should think in the various steps, Houdini tends to have a step by step process rather than one tool that tries to do too much.

- CAD data can be imported via ives but and it is quite good but it is not as modern as the current CAD data formats like STEP, unfortunately that is not being addressed yet.

The presets for Lsystems may be a good idea at first but surely enough you will probably want to do grass with fur instead or curves, or instances, or…

The PBR materials is 100% necessary and something i have been banging about recently so I would love to see the next release on that respect.

Again, good ideas you are throwing our there and I am sure they are reading it but I think it would be great to also dive a bit more on some of these things that are already there in a less obvious but more powerful form.

hope it helps
jb

Hello Jordi,
And thank you for your input. Allow me to disagree with you though. I don't know what is exactly your role into 3d(animator/generalist/modeler etc) or if you have your own studio or if you are your own employer. Well, i am saying this because you have apparently missed the point in here. It's not about having ‘packed tools’ it's about having all the features needed to do your job. More precisely, i am sure i can go ahead and build myself a rectangle using VEX, but i am sure not going even thinking of doing it while i am starting a project. I am a self employed freelancer, and my time is more precious then diamonds. I will choose and purchase whatever gives me that rectangle out of the box, so i can do 2 projects while you are building your VEX rectangle. As a generalist(i am doing everything from modeling to MOCAP and character and general animation myself) i know one thing for sure. 80%(or even more) of my modeling and scene building is revolving around the so called ‘primitive modeling’. What primitive modeling is, is that you break your model to be into primitive shapes, and start to construct it( so reverse of the ‘breaking’). Now, in Houdini i find out that there is an almost huge miss on this aspect, and while i can use something like Blender(witch by the way has an amazing array of primitives, basic and extended ones like gems, tubes, screws etc) the NURBES/curves domain is different. Is different because there is no app on the market that will export NURBS/curves primitives(rectangle, circle, cog wheel etc). Hence my request to have them included into Houdini, and why they are on my TOPMOST priority. Second of all, vast majority of my animations, are done manipulating some form of basic characteristics of the primitives(let's say we can animate a bevel amount over time). Having this already built in, it's a a huge time saver. I think SESI can learn few thinks from Cinema4D in this regard. I don't know why you focused on slice, it was just a sample, not the pinnacle of my requests. I hope now it's more clear why and how was my list constructed. There are far more requests i would like to place, like render instances, a proper timer on renders(and mplay too) not just the start time of the render, but a simple clock to tell me how long my render has taken, so i can optimize it etc…
Attached you will find few samples of my projects; one it's a grill and i model it using primitives and NURBS from pictures. It's ready to be animated with pivots properly placed on the doors and wheels. How long it will take to make this project inside Houdini? Or better yet, Houdini has all the tools needed to do it fast and efficient? Especially the frontal and sides parts witch are of an organic shape and will be a *** to box model it. I finished this project in 2 days, buy the way…..

Constantin X
There are far more requests i would like to place, like render instances, a proper timer on renders(and mplay too) not just the start time of the render, but a simple clock to tell me how long my render has taken, so i can optimize it etc…

Render instances: check out the Delayed Load shader

Proper timer on renders: the Render Scheduler will show this. IPR renders will not show a stop time as they are always are rendering.

After some very busy period i am back to forum with new features improvements. Some new features i find out are missing basically. I tried to port one project into Apprentice to teach myself into using Houdini into production. Well, it's a commercial for a fishing lure company in US. So i have the lure modeled and uv'ed. When i open up the uv panel(5 on keyboard) it shows all the uv's stacked one on top of the other. It's a mess. It also lacks two key features on uv mapping, so here it comes:

- display only the uv's for selected objects, not for all objects as it is right now(it's really a mess, i need to deselect all the objects i don't want to have the uv's displayed in order to display only the map for the selected object) - WHEN NO OBJECT IS SELECTED DO NOT DISPLAY ANY UV MAP ;

- add project from view to projection methods;

- add ABF(and maybe LSCM) unwrapping method with the option to use selected points/edges for relaxation - this is huge, coupled with project from view this actually make uv mapping into a 5 minutes job

This is all for now. I think the UV part is key to a smooth and efficient production. As usual, there are just small things to implement. Even if they don't made into 14(i guess it's too late now) i hope they will reach 14.5.

Hey Constantin,

It is great to hear your experiences and needs if your time is so precious (like everybody else I guess) why don't you pick the best tool for the job?

Modelling is not (and I doubt will be anytime soon) as strong as an specialised modelling tool like Modo/Zbush or even C4D… just model it in Modo and take it from there.

There are also better rendering packages for Product rendering, Modo/KeyShot/etc… so I wonder why do you feel Houdini will give you an advantage.

Are you looking at it for parametric modelling? if so, why don't go Solidworks?

Anyway, it is certainly possible to do but way harder than you may need to for these kind of projects.

Hope it helps
jb

PS. To check the kind of work i do day in and day out. http://www.jordibares.com [jordibares.com]

jordibares
Hey Constantin,

It is great to hear your experiences and needs if your time is so precious (like everybody else I guess) why don't you pick the best tool for the job?

Modelling is not (and I doubt will be anytime soon) as strong as an specialised modelling tool like Modo/Zbush or even C4D… just model it in Modo and take it from there.

There are also better rendering packages for Product rendering, Modo/KeyShot/etc… so I wonder why do you feel Houdini will give you an advantage.

Are you looking at it for parametric modelling? if so, why don't go Solidworks?

Anyway, it is certainly possible to do but way harder than you may need to for these kind of projects.

Hope it helps
jb

PS. To check the kind of work i do day in and day out. http://www.jordibares.com [jordibares.com]

Hi Jordi,
I never implied that you are not an artist, just did not known what part of the 3d is your specialization. Regarding Houdini, why i insist to use it? I just shown two very small projects i did, not everything i do. I just recently finished a commercial for a new vodka and it's full of fluid simulations and dynamics etc. I also did some VFX for a Hollywood movie(big producer, small payments ). So, my workflow implies a lot of different tools from fluid simulations, to dynamics and yea, product rendering, animations. The catch is that i do all this alone, i do everything from start to finish, i don't work in a team anymore and i never will again. Houdini is a tool that can do most of the stuff i work on. So you can say that i try to simplify my worflow by replacing several tools with just one or two. And regarding the missing features, if we can improve it, why not? It just needs few small changes and it's perfect for me…. Most probably i am going to use it along side with a second tool(most probably Modo or Cinema4D).
Thanks,
C

I just wanted to show you the wide range of work I am involved and yes, I'm am making pretty pixels like anyone in the team, on every project and go from A to Z in production (advertising is exactly that). :-)

But I was just curious why not embrace the best of every tool, some are free and really worth checking (for example Blender)

Anyway, hope things move in that directly and Houdini gets better and better in the modelling stages too.

Constantin X

jordibares
Hey Constantin,

It is great to hear your experiences and needs if your time is so precious (like everybody else I guess) why don't you pick the best tool for the job?

Modelling is not (and I doubt will be anytime soon) as strong as an specialised modelling tool like Modo/Zbush or even C4D… just model it in Modo and take it from there.

There are also better rendering packages for Product rendering, Modo/KeyShot/etc… so I wonder why do you feel Houdini will give you an advantage.

Are you looking at it for parametric modelling? if so, why don't go Solidworks?

Anyway, it is certainly possible to do but way harder than you may need to for these kind of projects.

May be I should prepare a little add-on shelf with some of these things there. ;-)

Hope it helps
jb

PS. To check the kind of work i do day in and day out. http://www.jordibares.com [jordibares.com]

Hi Jordi,
I never implied that you are not an artist, just did not known what part of the 3d is your specialization. Regarding Houdini, why i insist to use it? I just shown two very small projects i did, not everything i do. I just recently finished a commercial for a new vodka and it's full of fluid simulations and dynamics etc. I also did some VFX for a Hollywood movie(big producer, small payments ). So, my workflow implies a lot of different tools from fluid simulations, to dynamics and yea, product rendering, animations. The catch is that i do all this alone, i do everything from start to finish, i don't work in a team anymore and i never will again. Houdini is a tool that can do most of the stuff i work on. So you can say that i try to simplify my worflow by replacing several tools with just one or two. And regarding the missing features, if we can improve it, why not? It just needs few small changes and it's perfect for me…. Most probably i am going to use it along side with a second tool(most probably Modo or Cinema4D).
Thanks,
C

Constantin X
- add project from view to projection methods;

UVTexture node has Texture Type - Perspective from Camera. Sounds like what you want.

MartybNz

Constantin X
- add project from view to projection methods;

UVTexture node has Texture Type - Perspective from Camera. Sounds like what you want.

Hi MartybNz,
And thank you for your inputs. I will check them when i have some free time. I am not sure that Perspective is what i want though. I need UV's from front and side of the model. I hate to show off my techniques , but the trick is that if you project from one of this view, select your cut line and then do a ABF unwrap you have perfect UV's in minutes. Even if does uv's from all views(project from view, not from cam, but will check to see if it's not the same) it still does not have ABF unwrapping though. And, the display of ALL uv maps not just of selected objects is, ughhhh, a mess. But nothing too bad, and as Jordi suggested i can always uv/model in other programs. I am just trying to contribute as much as i can to the improvement of Houdini. After all, i think this will benefit everyone. If at the end of the day some of the ideas moved around here by all users will bring even the smallest improvement to Houdini it has worth all the time we spend in here.
Thank you,
C

jordibares
I just wanted to show you the wide range of work I am involved and yes, I'm am making pretty pixels like anyone in the team, on every project and go from A to Z in production (advertising is exactly that). :-)

But I was just curious why not embrace the best of every tool, some are free and really worth checking (for example Blender)

Anyway, hope things move in that directly and Houdini gets better and better in the modelling stages too.

Yeap,
i would say moving pixels. Well i do use Blender and it has some very, very nice features. But you know that is much easier to work in a single package(yea i know, not possible).
Thanks,
C