twod mentioned a case where you have an obj selected and other case in which you don't - can't select points if you don't have an obj selected he's saying. Which is perfectly normal, but still don't see the connection with what OneBigTree has said (he doesn't talk about unselected objs), both of his points, being addressed by me above.
And now I'm wondering why is this the case:

goat
you can see the points will display when you use the I key to dive in the a sphere but the points wont display if you press 2 on the keyboard from the scene level.

Again, assuming you have an obj selected.

goat
you can see the points will display when you use the I key to dive in the a sphere but the points wont display if you press 2 on the keyboard from the scene level.

Did a few tries and the bug, or w/e itis, onebigtree mentioned is manifesting itself in this case too. You don't always see points, even if you dive into sops with I in net view. (i made sure points was the preselected sub component in viewport)

So thinking more about this issue, I think it stems from the fact that H approaches this whole object/sub-object differently than other 3d dccs out there, in which one can't go into a subcomponent mode when you have no obj selected.
In H, having no object selected, you still can go into point/edge/face mode.
Not sure what advantages does Houdini's approach have, but it clearly confuses the crap out of people coming from other 3d packages.

Correction: in Maya apparently you can (in max and xsi you can't), but you also can activate/select the objects you drag over when in point mode, and you also can edit multiple obj simultaneously, so it makes sense. In Houdini you can't edit multiple obj, so I'm not sure what advantages does this subcomponent pre-election have currently.


@OneBigTree to alleviate the hassle of going to wire/non-wire shaded mode back&forth, use Shift+W hotkey.

I think the video is confusing and I don't believe OneBig is asking for components to be shown at scene level, though he will have to clarify.

His issue in the video, for points not showing, stems mostly likely from not having ‘Follow selection mask’ turn on in Display Options/Guides. This is a UX issue.

He is also asking for a new decoration mode where changing to edges and prims it would display them, like points do, when the above guide is turned on. Perhaps an auto Wire-Smooth would be okay when edge/prims component tool is selected.

However, the bug mentioned eariler remains.

goat
Perhaps an auto Wire-Smooth would be okay when edge/prims component tool is selected.

Yes, but as a preference toggle. I sometimes import high poly-count objects from Zb to do tests w/o having to bother with displacement baking, and in those cases I wouldn't want to see wires on my mesh when at SOP level, for obvious reasons. I'm guessing sims people wouldn't that either when dealing with scenarios of high poly-count sims.

And this is exactly not seeing the problem. Thanks for making my case.

If you talk about subjective preferences then you have to talk about choice. I am complaining about the things where we don't have one.

And Thank you for making my case.

No one thanks me?

To fix the UX issue do we think promoting ‘Follow selection mask’ to a viewport icon on a sidebar, named perhaps ‘auto-component display’ would help modellers find it? Not sure the current name is intuitive.

It wouldn't address onebigtree's problem, which is related to displaying edges.
Shift+W seems like a good current solution to me - so maybe show this shortcut in the shading modes list?

I would go with auto-display wire edges for edges/prims, as verts and points already have it. Seems like a hangover from the pre-H14 days. If we all now send a bug and rfe report in it may happen quicker! So to wrap this up if anyone wants to send them in (copy paste them):

Bug: From the Scene level, pressing 2 or 4 keybaord shortcuts will not display decorations whilst pressing I key does, when Follow Selection Mask is on.
bug #99277

Rfe: auto display wire edge decorations for edge and prim selection mode, when Follow Selection Mask is on.
RFE #99248

Rfe: Add ‘Follow Selection Mask’ icon to viewport UI/ or under a menu so it's more easliy discoverd by the user.
RFE #99249

goat
Rfe: auto display wire edge decorations for edge and prim selection mode, when Follow Selection Mask is on.

So when I don't want wires on my smooth shading in sub-component mode, press Shift+W as well as uncheck “follow…”? Basically, it's an override for when you're in sub-component mode, at object level the shading modes would function the same way as they do currently, right?
That option should remember its setting in new sessions -save perma defaults.
I want to make sure I understand the implications of what you're proposing, before filing a RFE.

I would imagine there would be a difference to the WireSmoothShaded version:

1. The auto-edges for edge/prims would only display for the geo node you are in. Currently any object in visible shows a wireframe in Smooth Wire Shaded, including nodes visible at scene level.

2. The edges could be much more visible ,like the points and vert decorations are, than the dull wireSmooth mode. This makes it a distinct mode that would also enhance the Smooth Wire Shaded mode.

To see a smooth shaded in subcomponent mode/geometry level, yes you would uncheck Follow Selection Mask. You can always switch to handle mode too, as it also removes the point/vert decorations currently.


Object level remains unaffected by any of these enhancements.

goat
Currently any object in visible shows a wireframe in Smooth Wire Shaded, including nodes visible at scene level.

But you can control that by going Markers>GhostSceneGeo>Unique…>Smooth shaded instead of Smooth Wire Shaded.

I don't know man, I said Houdini's prefs are unintuitive since I picked it up around H14. Ambiguous naming, overused drop-down lists instead of simple rows with check-boxes, etc, but the functionality in this corner is there, backwards and confusing as it is. At this point it's up to sesi to make it a bit more less insane from an ux pov.

I'm lingering on the impression that OneBigTree didn't know about the Shift+W shortcut when he launched his complain. It solves his problem in less than a second, but if one didn't know about it, it's understandable to be frustrated going with the mouse to that upper menu to constantly change the mode.
The points not displaying when first going into this mode in viewport is indeed a bug, which I also reported.

I think I'll just go in spectate mode on this thread and if you guys sort it out, I'll follow up with a RFE you agree upon if it makes sense, but as you can see, we're the only ones trying to figure it out, probably wasting our time…

The nice bright wireframe that is displayed at the scene level, when an object is selected, is perfect for the component egde/prim disply.

Deconvoluting ‘Set display options’ can wait, I think.

EDIT: the template wireframe or ‘Current geometry’ wireframe is even better, it just doesn't overlay on the node you are viewing currently.

goat
The nice bright wireframe that is displayed at the scene level, when an object is selected, is perfect for the component egde/prim disply.

If you're saying what I think, I disagree. Reason being, it'll be hard to distinguish the selected edges from the rest, as both would then be shades of yellow. Maybe a darker gray would pop out better, but I think this whole issue should be solved by a scene colors editor, like so many 3d apps have, allowing users to set w/e colors they want for everything.

pickled
Maybe a darker gray would pop out better, but I think this whole issue should be solved by a scene colors editor, like so many 3d apps have, allowing users to set w/e colors they want for everything.

The funny thing is that it does have, just à la Houdini style, under the counter.
Viewport Color Editor [www.sidefx.com]

Use the built in help browser to make the Load button working. If you type viewport in the top search field of the help, the first in the list will be that thing. (Examples/Python panel examples)

OneBigTree
As an example: Why I create a grain sim via shelf tool it asks me to select the source object but switches from Selection mode to Handle, which makes selection more complicated especially if I forgot that secure mode is on.

Jumping back to second of the original issues; I'm not sure why OneBig is saying that selection become harder with the handle tool. Can anyone explain that to me? You only can select objects at that level.

@xilofoton As is with probably anyone, I have a limited number of fucks per day. It just happens that I have none left for this. Setting aside personal life, your solution becomes inadequate, as it requires me to give at least one very scarce fuck allocated to 3d.

OneBigTree
When you go to point selection mode first in a selected object, points are not shown, no matter what shading mode you're in. You have to switch to edge or primitive and then back to show the points.

Fixes coming in thick ‘n’ fast - < 3,024,000 seconds for this one! Let's get testing!

Houdini 17.5.406 Fixed a few bugs where the “Follow selection mask” display option wasn't always properly respected when initially diving into an object.
Fixed a bug where area selecting in a component selector at the object level did not detect a selection and so did not dive into the object.

madrenderman
Few months ago I wrote to support to report a missing feature in the animation editor, it was not possible to select multiple keyframes and change their tangent type without affecting the entire curve. It was incredible for me that such a (very) basic feature was not present in the 17th edition of the software, and when I reported it to the support and to Houdini users Facebook group it was difficult to explain the problem, it was not understood, or it was not considered a problem, many suggested workarounds based on python/expressions/chops (!), but I just wanted to press a button and make some keyframes linear/spline/flat like in Maya.
The feature was implemented within few days, SideFX has really a great support, but it was clear that Houdini is the king for visual effects and motion graphics, but very few people (probably no one) is using it for animation and especially for character animation, and it's a shame because I'm sure that a SideFX programmer with the help of an experienced character animator coming from Maya could make those little adjustments in a week or two (ok, probably something more but not that much) and make Houdini number one in animation too.
And I think this applies to modeling / interface too
Ray

Nice to see someone actually using the software. I cant believe how many people are talking about how SideFX will conquer all really soon when they are lacking these basic things. Modeling (like the typical modeling people will want to do) is just not on a level of something like Maya. Yes, you can spend a fair amount of time to build an impressive procedural system that works and has its place, but how interesting is that to someone modeling in Maya? Do they care about it at all? If procedural modeling is so powerful where are all my mechs, characters and assets built in Houdini? Why is all we usually get another procedural fence/road asset (or some sort of variation of it)? Its annoying because SideFX is always kinda sorta going there with more and more viewport interaction when modeling. But then again things can break easily or another basic feature is not available thus you cant get into any sort of flow.
Some people act like Houdini is becoming so powerful that people modeling, rigging, animation, grooming in Maya (for example) are just dying to switch to Houdini. There is zero reason for them to do that and stories like the one you have just shared now further add to that.