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Hi Graig, I'm afraid it's only Point Attributes that get transformed. So you need to promote them before the transform, just make sure you have unique points. The good news is that if you make you points unique the amount of vertices doesn't change. This means you can branch of a few nodes to calculate the normals and use Attribute Copy to copy them back on the original geometry. So it's - unique - promote to point - do transform - promote to vertex - attribute copy If you're dealing with Object level transforms then you have to use an Object Merge to transform them to worldspace. Slightly more tricky. But it might be good to know that SESI is considering supporting automatic transforming of vertex normals simular to point normals. Not sure if and when this will be supported though. cheers, benS craigleehoffman at aol.com wrote: