Hey guys, so i'm animating and using effectively the Animation graph editor.

I'm struggling on some things maybe someone know how to sort out things…

1. Scopping
I can't have two graph window open with different scopes, pretty basic is that possible ???
On XSI we have a “pin icon” and also a refresh one (this one is missing through the whole Houdini UI)

2. Display / Selection
In Softimage we can clic on a particular curve, and edit only this one while the others remains VISIBLES. Here i can highlight a curve but this doesn't change the scope. Or i can scope a particular one by clicking on the list (if i know which one is it) but others are removed from the view…

3a. Curve control and Tangent adjustments…
I found very hard to adjust tangents NUMERICALY because we have to clic first on the tangent handle. Impossible operation with more than 5 overlapping curves.
In SI we select only the point and can do it all in the numerical fields.
There is two numerical field for the tangent lenght and angle for the left tangent and angle for the right one. So by selecting one point you can do it all without reselecting

3b. more adjustments
In the numerical fields we can't type as usual math op
like 2+3…
like *3 or +2 to obtain MULTIPLE keys offset
don't forget that one for the time too !

4. odd/missing things…
- the “Accel” is not very predictable. Accel values in Houdini are dependant of the lenght of the curve i think… strange and unpredictable no ? why not the percentage of the curve ??
- in Soft we can normalize multiple curves, pretty cool tool for working with different height ranges, missing here !
- in Soft I have a numeric transform tool, missing badly here, try invert an animation, or scale it by 0.5 ;-)
- rulers are definitely wrongs and not consistant on the same view (diff values between top/bottom) plus they should divide properly for animators, actually i have a ruler like 57-62-67-72-77 how these numbers could be usefull ???

With all of this animating in houdini is possible but a pain compared to softimage…

Stop proposing/asking about features that will make Houdini more like Softimage!


When it comes to Houdini modeling, viewport interaction and display options, overall intuitiveness and animation (yes, the animation editor is still very poor), we live in huts.

well, it's obviously a problem…
Houdini needs badly on part of his UI some love for people who are actually producing not lookdeving.

history wise houdini wasn't used in the big studios for organic modeling or animation (okey there ares some who have done some stuff).

so there it laks a lot of functions and you just can't build tools in 2 years from basic to best production class….

just make good RFE proposals for them…….

sorry that i can't help you more…..

These are good Rfe. It's probably the best to do screen recordings of how SI does it, then how you are trying to achieve it in Houdini. There may be some hidden way that gets you half way there until it can be implemented.

The developers working on the Animation Editor are ex-XSI so it should be quite easy to understand.

Thanks!

+1 on those RFEs.

Is there a way we can subscribe to someone else's RFE so we can follow the statuses?

Also is there a way to “+1” someone else's RFE to manifest added interest and maybe add more weight to them so they gets more chances of getting done?

I totally agree that these proposed RFEs from NNois are really important for animation

MartybNz
The developers working on the Animation Editor are ex-XSI so it should be quite easy to understand.

I don't think being ex-XSI developers makes it easier or harder for them to understand than the rest of the devs in this case since neither of them worked on this, from what I recall from Luc-Eric (Haldan said so himself that he worked on Mray integration).

Anyway, that's rather irrelevant, what's important is that not only I've submitted a RFE on NNois' #3 (might be wrong about that, I've submitted many RFEs) but I can recall perfectly when I was part of beta and Guillaume was working on the animation editor and I've raised that problem in that thread.

I'll explain in detail, with images when I get home in front of XSI. Not sure why I'm still doing this though…

Here's an image with XSI's animation editor.
I was thinking about doing some .gifs, but I think it's pretty clear from this image regarding having access to all the things you need (tangents, etc) when you select a key - no need to select several elements, separately, from the same key.
In the left side, as is with most if not all XSI's editor, you have a set of detailed preferences attached to this particular editor. So you can easily find and customize shit.

McNistor
Here's an image with XSI's animation editor….

Hey McNistor you miss the transform tools on you screenshot.(right clic on an empty zone on the UI to add them)

Thoses are VERY important.

Generally speaking, peoples have to understand than animators doesn't just add simply keyframes, and adjust from time to time the tangents or values numerically. No, they use theses particular tools nearly every time a key, and, when you have a thousand of key well you need some robust tools to manage them without having fear to destroy everything and more importantly we need a clear view of that.

Somes could suggest us to remove the “time marks” and the names to make the viewport cleaner but without them you can't more more than one key at a time…

The perfect conditions is tool where at the end of the day you don't want to punch in the face of your computer.

I tried Modo for a month for that and it fails badly, animation editor isn't ready at all.
At least the one on houdini only miss things, they just have to improve it

I don't have so many times now to makes RFE's so I will first update my first post here (like now the 3b point and more). Then i'll makes RFE's later

Hoping SideFX could understand the need for production in mind tools.

Yeah, well I haven't animated something since ages and I don't have the transform checked and completely forgot about them.
Please forgive my recklessness :mrgreen:

BTW, there's a quaternion keys option which I've never used. Never managed to experience with quaternion animation.

Have you have ever converted your rotations to Quaternion and dealt with them in the editor?

Hey guys, so i'm animating and using effectively the Animation graph editor. .

I'm really glad to hear that. I know we still have work to do on it, and some work has already been done but is unreleased.
I can't say much about the new upcoming features but I can tell you which RFEs don't need to be logged.

1. Scopping
I can't have two graph window open with different scopes, pretty basic is that possible ???
On XSI we have a “pin icon” and also a refresh one (this one is missing through the whole Houdini UI)
.

I'm aware of it, it isn't possible in Houdini in 15. Please don't log an RFE for it.
You are right about the pin icons, you need to double click on them to refresh an editor.
The best you can do in H15 is to pin individual channels in your animation editor and set the Filter String to the channel name you want. The Filter/Template pattern strings aren't global and are set on a per editor basis. You can activate them in the Gear menu/View/Show Filter Field and Show Template Field. It is really tricky to use as you don't have a way to set them from the currrent display flag.

2. Display / Selection
In Softimage we can clic on a particular curve, and edit only this one while the others remains VISIBLES. Here i can highlight a curve but this doesn't change the scope. Or i can scope a particular one by clicking on the list (if i know which one is it) but others are removed from the view…

The Template pattern string will define wich channels to hide. It's tricky to use too. Please log an RFE for that case. I think the template flag needs to show as clickable button next to the pin column.

3a. Curve control and Tangent adjustments…
I found very hard to adjust tangents NUMERICALY because we have to clic first on the tangent handle. Impossible operation with more than 5 overlapping curves.
In SI we select only the point and can do it all in the numerical fields.
There is two numerical field for the tangent lenght and angle for the left tangent and angle for the right one. So by selecting one point you can do it all without reselecting

It's a tricky one in the houdini aniamtion editor. Do log an RFE for it. I can see that implemented as bottom value toolbar mode that would let you edit the values of related handles. We could also add handle selection expansion commands… like selected related segments.

3b. more adjustments
In the numerical fields we can't type as usual math op
like 2+3…
like *3 or +2 to obtain MULTIPLE keys offset
don't forget that one for the time too !

Did you try doing it? The animation editor value edit boxes aren't the same as the parameter edtior numerical boxes.
They do support inplace math operations.
Try selecting keys, and replacing the Frame value ‘—’ by ‘+10’
For negative offset do: ‘+-10’ as the minus character is a valid one.

4. odd/missing things…
- the “Accel” is not very predictable. Accel values in Houdini are dependant of the lenght of the curve i think… strange and unpredictable no ? why not the percentage of the curve ??

It's for legacy reason.. it's really the only reason. It's based on the time distance between the keys and I think they represent a length in seconds. Changing the Global FPS affect their values.Please log an RFE to a a way to edit acceleration as percentage or as frames.

- in Soft we can normalize multiple curves, pretty cool tool for working with different height ranges, missing here !

Please don't log an RFE for it.

- in Soft I have a numeric transform tool, missing badly here, try invert an animation, or scale it by 0.5 Wink

You can invert values by inputing ‘*-1’ in the Value Edit box. Same goes for the ‘Frame’ edit box.
I have an existing RFE about improving the Box handle tool to have numerical inputs in it.
The Box handle tool does scaling from a pivot position, but there's no way to tell it to do exactly 200%.

- rulers are definitely wrongs and not consistant on the same view (diff values between top/bottom) plus they should divide properly for animators, actually i have a ruler like 57-62-67-72-77 how these numbers could be usefull ???

Log a bug for it, the main playbar does it correctly. It's really just a -1 offset missing in the code.
I can easily fix it and have it backported to H15.

With all of this animating in houdini is possible but a pain compared to softimage…

Thanks a lot for the feedbackl, it really is helping Houdini.

Quote:

4. odd/missing things…
- the “Accel” is not very predictable. Accel values in Houdini are dependant of the lenght of the curve i think… strange and unpredictable no ? why not the percentage of the curve ??

It's for legacy reason.. it's really the only reason. It's based on the time distance between the keys and I think they represent a length in seconds. Changing the Global FPS affect their values.Please log an RFE to a a way to edit acceleration as percentage or as frames.

In the same spirit, I think the slope should also be expressed in degrees… Do you guys agree with that?

Also I think that these changes should be available in the API for hou.Keyframe

cval

In the same spirit, I think the slope should also be expressed in degrees… Do you guys agree with that?

yes please

Guillaume
Did you try doing it? The animation editor value edit boxes aren't the same as the parameter edtior numerical boxes.
They do support inplace math operations.
Try selecting keys, and replacing the Frame value ‘—’ by ‘+10’
For negative offset do: ‘+-10’ as the minus character is a valid one.
…
You can invert values by inputing ‘*-1’ in the Value Edit box. Same goes for the ‘Frame’ edit box.

Thanks Guillaume,
My bad, i confess i've stopped after trying a simple “10+5” which doesn't works …

Where can i find that kind of infos on the docs ?

http://www.sidefx.com/docs/houdini15.0/ref/panes/changraph#edit-fields [sidefx.com]

Well NNois, i added more or less the exact same RFE's plus some more 2 years ago. To be honest much has being improved and quite few of them are implemented and i am know at the point of moving 100% to Houdini. That being said, there are other things i would like to see improved, but NNois, have you tried CHOP? Most of the operations you request can be done in CHOPS. For example time remapping, curve filtering etc. You can basically do much more and non-destructive with CHOPS, that you can do with animation editor in XSI. For example you can fit a curve over your existing channel and than smoothing the channel with it. All this non-destructive so my MOCAP workflow is like in heaven! As for the numerical adjust of the keys, just lasso select the key and it will give you numeric options at the bottom(not tangents though, and this i hope they will add in a future release). Also, can you SESI guys PLEASE add math functions to all numeric inputs? I mean SYSTEM WIDE, like in parameters, animation editor etc.

Constantin X
have you tried CHOP? Most of the operations you request can be done in CHOPS.

I'm not speaking of the same thing here, more about the need for Houdini to be a WAR Machine.
Beeing able to just… work and produce fast, like the ability to animate a common scene, multiples cameras, characters and animated rigged objects in the very same scene. The Animation editor need to be tailored for that, just like the Softimage one.

NNois

Constantin X
have you tried CHOP? Most of the operations you request can be done in CHOPS.

I'm not speaking of the same thing here, more about the need for Houdini to be a WAR Machine.
Beeing able to just… work and produce fast, like the ability to animate a common scene, multiples cameras, characters and animated rigged objects in the very same scene. The Animation editor need to be tailored for that, just like the Softimage one.

Go back and search the initial animation thread where Jordi, i and quite a few others commented. I required few rfe's, from witch the most important was added - animation layers, plus few more others. Regarding the Animation editor, you don't seem to understand how Houdini works(i admit i had a hard time myself, so i don't blame you). You can import your curves inside CHOPS and there you have all the tools you require, from re-timing, remapping, filtering etc. All work in an non destructive way. If you update your CHOPS skills you will never go back to Animation editor, trust me. It's like XSI on steroids…

Constantin X
All work in an non destructive way. If you update your CHOPS skills you will never go back to Animation editor, trust me. It's like XSI on steroids

NOT agree at all, i'm pretty aware of and experienced with shops and trust me it's not for traditional animation or characters but more for motion design stuff.