Hi all,

Okay, I've done a lot of research this past week, and it didn't take long to figure out that Houdini is obviously the top of the tops in the coolest of the cool positions in the VFX industry. That being said however, my extensive research also revealed that I am currently stuck with a very expensive computer that I just purchased about a year ago (a Powerbook G4) that will never, ever be able to run Houdini!

So, I must bite the bullet and buy what I need to get started in learning Apprentice, since finding a fufilling new career direction is the reason why I bought my current computer in the first place. Though I hope soften the bullet a bit with a smart, inexpensive purchase.

Perhaps someone might be able to offer some purchasing advice as to the what and the where to finding something. It will be used only for learning Houdini, so it doesn't need to be anything fancy.

Also, not sure about which OS to run. I've had moderate exposure to UNIX in past jobs, but it's been a while, and I'll be starting from page one on that one too. So Windows would be the easiest of course right now, but what are the high-end VFX houses, like Digital Domain, running?

If the major VFX studios are not using Windows for Houdini, and working in a place of that caliber is my eventual goal, would it be a good idea to start working on Linux studies at the same time, or is it better to just focus on getting up and running on Apprentice and getting a demo together?

Any advice would be much appreciated!

Regards,
Terry

:idea:

I'm sure there are many people here that can give you far better answers but to be short:

- unfortunately Apple has no life in VFX industry even after Shake acqusition and this is not just a matter of Houdini but all major packages, working enviroments, plugins, subsystems, compilers, so Mac or VFX, that is a question..!

- buy any PC you'd like. There is only one part of it you should care about. that is GPU. The best nVidia card you can afford you should buy. There is really nothing else to say about it. Forget about ATI, that's for sure. If you can't affort for Quadro, don't worry! Even 6600GT will work for you like a charm as long as you won't force it with really heavy geometry. 2GB of RAM it's a standard for now and Houdini is so kind to not be able to use more (32bit-app).
- If you're comfortable with Linux, its a best option for 3D/VFX work. Houdini works much better on Linux as many others high-end apps.

- If you prefer, for some reason like editing, Windows, that is fine also. A few crashes more won't kill you anyway .


Good luck!
Sy.

PC with dual booting (Linux/Windows) could be the answer. I ve been using Houdini lately on Windows and it is true, it aint as stable as on Linux.
- True about ATI, if you have a quick look at the forum, it seems ATI can be a problem. NVidia, I have a 5000 serie and works kind of fine ( about to upgrade it though).
- The rest is: buy the biggest, the fastest that your money can buy (as Sy said). 2GB of RAM, it is what the industry uses but 1GB will do the job if you are learning. Get 1 now and I am sure in a few months time, it will go down and you can get a 2nd GB, although I am not aware of workstation prices. On laptops it makes a difference.

Thanks guys for taking the time to relay all the helpful info. All the active positivity of this community forum is one of the big reasons I've decided to choose this software as my main tool to entre' 3D.

Dual-boot seems like the best way to go. What ratio of Unix-to-Windows hard drive space is recommended for that configuration? What would be the minimum hard drive size for a student to get by adequately with room for growth?

I've been using macs primarily for the past few years. So it's been a while since I've used pc's and have fallen out of the loop as to which brands and models are more reliable units. Also, unsure about where the best place to buy in the Los Angeles area. Anyone have any specific suggestions?

Books: The Magic of Houdini is obviously on the top of the “must have” list. Any others to consider?

For Ubuntu, I found a new one on Amazon: The Official Ubuntu Book by Benjamin Mako Hill, Jono Bacon, Corey Burger, and Jonathan Jesse. One of the good things about this book is that is comes with a cd that allows one to run the OS from the disk without having to install it to the hard drive (I think). So a dual-boot situation may not be necessary (I think, again)?

Peace,
T.

1) Live distros - bootable from CD is not a solution for anything serious. You can't save anything on disk, install, or even acess your files as long as you don't have FAT16 partition - the only WIN file system supported natively by LINUX. LIVEs are great to see how distro looks like but nothing more.
2) As to disk space. W have no idea about clear answer except one advice:
if you planing to exchange data between Linux/WIN, create special partition for exchanging data in FAT16 system. As I know this is the only reasonable solution for using these to system. Linux's fat32/ntfs drivers are useless. So taking this into account:
you can create one data partition like 60% of disk space, and 20% for two systems (60GB, 20, 20). But there is no rule here.

my two cents,
Sy.

there are too many linux versions. which one do you suggest?
i don't know anything abaout os's other than windows. so i see that we can use both linux and windows in the same pc.
my question is, we have our renders in linux,can we use this renders in windows platform applications, like such shake,aftereffects etc?

lastly,for example learning mel needs some effort,learning houdini needs some effort also,so do we handle the linux in the same manner. is it complicated? should one has to be a wizard to use it, or is it something like dos in principal

thank you.

Really, all this discussion about operating systems is fine, but you should not feel that you somehow *need* to put yourself through learning one other than what you're already used to(windows I assume). That might seem strange coming from someone with a penguin avatar, but really - the operating system is just the interface to the apps. It's like asking “should I learn C++, Perl or Python?” The answer depends mightily on what exactly you see yourself doing. If you're hoping to be a technical director, then absolutely become *extremely* conversant with Linux. In fact, screw the dual boot and go Linux all the way - jump in the deep end. However, if you want to be an animator - then study animation - be that character, visual FX or otherwise. It doesn't hurt to be passingly knowledgable of unix-style systems - but no-one is hiring you to be a system administrator.

I'm not saying this to try to frustrate you in learning new things, but to suggest you focus carefully on what your true interests are. If you want to be the best damned particle guy in the hemisphere - then start hammering POPs. Spending a week figuring out the reasons the latest kernel in the distribution you chose has a driver problem with an obscure, new motherboard chipset hasn't pushed you one inch closer to your goal.

I'm not suggesting a typical Linux distro will have this sort of problem - but it *might*, and who needs that(btw, I'd recommend SUSE, Unbuntu and Redhat, in roughly that order - *everyone* will give you a different opinion)?

Again, if it's something you personally want to learn - go for it. I personally never use dual boot because it's a pain to be rebooting - I find I tend to use mostly just one of the OS's - your results may vary. As far as sharing stuff between platforms - there's always issues, but there's always solutions. A basic animation file or image? Not a problem. Pathname nomeclature? A problem.

Anyway, just my thoughts. I wouldn't try learning to drive while wearing my first pair of glasses.

Cheers,

J.C.

Hey peeps,

I did some research and found what looks like a good unit for doing nothing other than running and learning Apprentice, (and hopefully burning a reel worthy of earning an entry-level position somewhere). Though I must say I really don't know whether or not this particular brand and model is worth the ink that it takes to print a sales receipt!

The unit I found is a Compaq Presario sr2020nx Minitower on sale at COMPUSA for $349.99 (which is about $100 less than best buys). See Below for the tech specs (sorry if i included too much info, perhaps the proper etiquette would be to just post a link?).

A definate possible concern is that the video card, although an Nvidia, appears to be built into the chipset of the motherboard? Hopefully it can be disabled to install a REAL video card?

And since the cpu comes only with 512 Ram, they have what looks like a good deal on RAM on sale too: Centon 1GB PC2-4200 240pin DDR2 DIMM Memory Module for $89.99.

I still haven't found the best Nvidia model to buy yet though. Some have mentioned the 6800 GT in this forum, but it is no longer made, and the Quadros are expensive and probably a bit of overkill at this point. Although I did see a Quadro FX 540 manufactured by PNY for about $219 at this link: http://www.academicsuperstore.com/market/market.html?category_id=268549 [academicsuperstore.com]

The sheer number and variety of Nvidia cards is astounding. In looking at the tech specs, they are all Open GL 2.0 supported, but other than that it's hard to tell which is what. They all seem so similar, yet prices range from $70 to $1700, or more!

How crucial are color accurate monitors? I have a Samsung SyncMaster 170mp which is a 19" LCD that connects to computers as well as DVD players, VCR, etc. hope that'll work okay for starters.

Below are the Tech Specs for the stock computer…..
(sorry if the info is excessive)

Processor Brand: AMD
Processor Class: Athlon 64 Processor
Processor Number: 3500+
Processor Speed: 2.2 GHz
Bus Speed: 2.0 GHz
L2 Cache Size: 512 KB
Memory Speed: PC2-4200 (533MHz)
Memory Technology: DDR2-SDRAM
Installed Memory: 512 MB
Maximum Memory: 2 GB
Memory Slots Total: 2
Memory Slots Available: 0
Hard Drive Capacity: 160 GB
Drive Controllers: SATA-150
Rotational Speed: 7200 RPM
Optical Drives: LightScribe Double Layer DVD+/-RW Drive:
Create a Double Layer DVD+R at a maximum 8X Write speed
Create a Double Layer DVD-R at a maximum 4X Write speed
Create a DVD+R at a maximum 16X Write speed or a maximum 8X Rewrite speed
Create a DVD-R at a maximum 16X Write speed or a maximum 6X Rewrite speed
Play a DVD at a maximum 16X Read speed
Create a CD-Rom at a maximum 40X Write speed
Create a CD-RW at a maximum 32X Rewrite speed
Play a CD-Rom at a maximum 40X Read speed
Sound Support: 6 Channel Configurable Audio
Video Chipset Brand: NVIDIA
Video Chipset: GeForce 6150LE
Video Integration: Motherboard
Shared Video RAM (Max): 256 MB
Port Connectors:
4 x USB 2.0 (2 on front, 2 on back)
1 x Video - external VGA monitor (on Back)
2 x PS/2 (on back)
1 x Audio - Microphone/Line-in/Line-out (on back)
1 x Audio - Line-out (on front)
1 x RJ-11 Modem
1 x RJ-45 Ethernet LAN
PCI Slots: 3
Slots Notes:
2 x PCI open
External 3.5 Bays: 1
External 5.25 Bays: 2
External Bays Notes:
1 x 3.5-inch open
1 x 5.25-inch open
Internal 3.5 Bays: 1
Internal Bays (Notes):
None open
Network Support: Ethernet (10/100 Mbps)
Modem Speed: 56 Kbps
Input Devices: Keyboard
Wheel Mouse
Installed Operating System: Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005
Microsoft Vista Capable: Yes
Included Software: PC Security:
Norton Internet Security 2006: Protect your PC out of the box (includes 60 days of complimentary live updates)
Productivity:
Microsoft® Works 8: Includes a word processor, spreadsheet, database and calendar
Intuit Quicken New User Edition 2006: Track your home finances and investments (English only).
Microsoft® Money 2006: Manage your personal finances and investments (English only).
MSN Encarta Standard Online: Access a complete encyclopedia, maps center, dictionary and thesaurus (1 year trial subscription included)
Adobe® Reader 7.0: Read and print PDF files
Entertainment:
Sonic DigitalMedia Plus - featuring LightScribe Technology: Edit, burn and archive data to DVDs and CDs
Sonic MyDVD Plus: Make movies and slideshows and burn to DVD or CD
HP Photosmart Premier: Organize, edit, share and protect photos
DVD Play: Watch DVD movies
RealPlayer: Find, play and organize digital programming - sports, entertainment, news and more
In the Box:
Compaq keyboard
Compaq scroller mouse
Chassis Style: Tower (Mini)
Height: 15.4 in
Width: 7.1 in
Depth: 16.3 in
Weight: 24.0 lbs
Limited Warranty: 1 Year (12 Months)



Cheers!
t. :?: :?:

Quickly and on the top of my head regarding NVidia Card,

What about GeForce 7300 ( need to be confirmed by someone who has one ) seems to be a reasonable card at a reasonable price and it comes with 512Mb. 7600 seems to be good too, but apparently older than the 7300.

you can easily share an FAT32 folder between Linux and XP - i have that kind of setup on my laptop. Most distributions support it right out of the box.

It's NTFS support that's still kinda experimental: Reading is ok, but you are taking changes trying to write with the available beta drivers.

On a dual boot setup I would recommend a small NTFS C:\ Windows partition, a bigger (depending on your needs) FAT32 share for your data plus dedicating all the rest of your harddrive to Linux.

Also note you should install the applications you want to run through WINE (Photoshop) on the FAT32 one, not C:\.

Oh, and I would personaly recommend Ubuntu first, then SUSE.

Hi Mael,

Thanks for the input. Your suggestion seems like the most logical way to get both Houdini and Unix under one's belt. But I like what JColdrick said earlier in this thread about staying focused. Which reminds me of something Oliver Stone said in the commentary of the DVD for “Alexander the Great”. He said that one of things that made Alexander so successful in history was his ability to choose his battles wisely, and more importantly, to focus on one battle at a time - (unlike the current u.s. administration's war woes).

So, although I do want to learn about the world's greatest OS, I want to learn the world's greatest VFX software even more! That being said however, I do think it is important to have a “passingly knowledgeable of unix-style systems” as JColdrick also stated earlier. So what I will probably do is have a small partition for Unbuntu to play around with and learn the basic tools of the OS, but keep it entirely separate from the primary partion of the easy-to-use-yet-easy-to-abuse Windows XP. At least that way, when (not if), I get neck deep into troubles, I don't have to worry whether it is the app or the os.

BTW, great website design (and content).

Cheers,
T. :idea:

Hey guys, bout the video card, someone on top said if possible to purchase a quadro. Right now I also have a 5000 series but I'm on the verge of upgrading (I'm not where near having a quadro though, they are pricey) but in cinema 4D forums, it is said that quadros don't have much of an impact compared to the top end “aka” gaming video cards (like the 7900). I know c4d and houdini and in the same league, heck it's not even the same game, but I was wonderring how much of an impact quadros would have on houdini. thanks.

I did some checking on the Nivida website and it looks like the 7600 GT is the best bet. Although it is actually designed more for gaming and video applications, many in this forum seem to like it fine. It is not the highest-level model of the Geoforce 7 Series, but seems to be the best value for the money. And it actually won PC magazine's best of, this Year. It sells for around $200.

If you want to take it a step higher, the Quadro FX 540 is designed as an entry-level card specifically for 3D work. It costs about $50 more though. And, I'm not sure if it matters or not, but it only comes with 128MB of RAM, as opposed to the 256 that the 7600GT has.

Since I myself am just getting into this, I'm leaning toward the 7600 GT as the wiser decision.

Cheers,
T.

:mrgreen: