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atlemgw
Hi

I'm an excited Houdini user at hobby-level. I really like the modeling in Houdini. Compared to Maya and Max and other programs with layers, I just think the node-based system is a lot more easy to navigate and move around.

Yesterday I had a chat with a guy from the industry, who told me Houdini was bad choice as a modeling application compared to Maya. The reason was that Maya is the most used application in production-companies. But do You think that could be changed over the years or is Maya just the the best choice? I know Maya, but can't see why it's concidered that great compared to Houdini. I just don't see why people think Maya is so much better.

My question are: Do You think Houdini would become a standard-modelling tool in future? Has it been used as a modelling-application at some companies?


Best regards,
Atle
Konstantin Magnus
Many people do not consider the difference between procedural modeling and traditional modeling, which makes discussions rather misleading, I think. From what I see and read Houdini already is the standard application for procedural solutions, and Maya probably is a very common package for modeling and animating by hand.

Also I would not expect one tool to rule them all, thats a a bit of a fan fantasy, if I may say so. Professional pipelines oftentimes consist of several programs that are used in conjunction.
Felix6699
Hi!
Many and very many companies use Maya or Modo because of the simplicity and speed of the modeling. You do not need additional knowledge in VEX. You completely devote yourself only to creativity and pushing the buttons in the program. Also Houdini was created primarily for VFX and still in many companies there is a stereotype that this software is highly specialized. It's easier for people to use the entire production pipline in Maya or 3dsMax, because it's easier, it does not require knowledge in programming or - to puzzle over a difficult task. In the labor market it is much easier to find a person who knows Maya or 3dsMax. Of course in the future Houdini can become the main package, to which people will fully navigate and build the entire pipeline. But the situation is such that Houdini - it's difficult.
aoakenfoArchiact
And Maya is a bad choice compared to Zbrush, according to people from a different camp.

I don't find the ‘most used app’ argument compelling. Network effects are powerful, but that doesn't mean the software is better. It's a hallmark for the average.

If you enjoy procedural modeling in Houdini, continue down that path.
goat
aoakenfoArchiact
I don't find the ‘most used app’ argument compelling. Network effects are powerful, but that doesn't mean the software is better. It's a hallmark for the average.

So how's those Lisp skills going in today's marketplace
aoakenfoArchiact
Artye
So how's those Lisp skills going in today's marketplace

Works well for some [paulgraham.com] people.
Martin Krol
atlemgw
Hi

I'm an excited Houdini user at hobby-level. I really like the modeling in Houdini. Compared to Maya and Max and other programs with layers, I just think the node-based system is a lot more easy to navigate and move around.

Yesterday I had a chat with a guy from the industry, who told me Houdini was bad choice as a modeling application compared to Maya. The reason was that Maya is the most used application in production-companies. But do You think that could be changed over the years or is Maya just the the best choice? I know Maya, but can't see why it's concidered that great compared to Houdini. I just don't see why people think Maya is so much better.

My question are: Do You think Houdini would become a standard-modelling tool in future? Has it been used as a modelling-application at some companies?


Best regards,
Atle
It depends what you need to do, how selections work, how navigation works, are there good sculpting tools? perhaps some good modelling plugins? There are differences between maya and houdini. Having both under your belt is good though, because when you need to go procedural you got houdini. When you need to go direct, you have maya. You can do more direct modelling in houdini but maya has better sculpting tools, its got some cool curve/ boolean plugins similar to hard ops. Its retopology tools are more streamlined with a nice interface.

With that said though, the cool thing in houdini is that you can visually build your own macros, or new tools. you can't do that with maya without doing some programming.
pickled
Instead of, or in addition to, making comparisons between various s/w modeling capabilities and other theorizations, we'd all be better off if at least one more user would file a RFE to see squashed a rather long in tooth bevel* bug that dashes around with impunity for at least a few builds now since I found it.

*bevel bug:
- create a primitive
- select a few polys
- apply polybevel op
- check “ignore shared edge”
- lose
atlemgw
Thanks a lot for your replies! I do really appreciate your time and it makes me see the modeling in some other perspectives. Thanks.
bardia
McNistor
Instead of, or in addition to, making comparisons between various s/w modeling capabilities and other theorizations, we'd all be better off if at least one more user would file a RFE to see squashed a rather long in tooth bevel* bug that dashes around with impunity for at least a few builds now since I found it.

*bevel bug:
- create a primitive
- select a few polys
- apply polybevel op
- check “ignore shared edge”
- lose

This should be fixed in tomorrow's build.

Way to find a connection to the subject at hand! Touché.
pickled
Great! I have another one for you if you're in the mood.
This one's not as obvious, so I have to do some more testing to find a better way to reproduce it while also figuring out if it's not me at fault. Will file a RFE when I'll have achieved that and maybe PM you the number after that.
goldfarb
McNistor
Will file a RFE when I'll have achieved that and maybe PM you the number after that.
I think he'll know as soon as you file it
peteski
Hey atlemgw,
The guy probably had some older idea of Houdini also. The poly tools in the latest release (with radial menu) are awesome, you can happily poly model stuff in Houdini with the bonus of procedural if you want.
Shalivan
Hi.I spend a time in modeling, and want to share some thoughts:

For me the ideal workflow would be with minimised shortcuts i must click to perform next operation. During modeling we spend hours and hours in performing same operations so every click count a lot. And its cool to concentrate on form and model not on UI. Now I feel like a small ninja-hacker. I know that i can change few things there and there…. But for me it's still not coherent at all.

So I think Houdini have almost all necessary tools for modeling, but it's rather lack of consequences and sporadic flow breakers. I will try to be as much analytical as i can, but also I allow myself to propose sth time to time (in brackets)


PolyDraw is not fill out with tools:

Built Mode
Do anybody use making empty point in the void? It's unintuitive and slow because then you must connect those points anyway second time. (there could be whole split mode instead of creating empty points - and create polygon from points functionality will remain same anyway)?
There is no assigned option for quad edit in build mode ? (could be extrude) ?

Edge Slice - is useless as a whole mode. (it would be enough have it in edit under: move edge operation with Shift modifier)

Brush Mode / Smooth Mode
could be just expanded to … zbruish

Edit Mode- lot of time when im forced to create new node, or do it by accident it’s a new: Edit node. I'm used to that if im using shortcuts: T R or E it remain in edit mode. It still nothing else than editing points, but it's very often when i must move points in coordinates system not available in polydraw.


Tools lack in poly draw:
- delete not working same way in every mode sometimes it works other times it makes blast node.
- lack tool: switch trix. Using it all the time in non ideal topo.
- poly draws smooth selection mode

Shortcuts
I don't know how deep is sidefx philosophy if we talk about the shortcuts. But for modeling it is one of the crucial things. The ideal solution is when you have left hand on keyboard and right on mouse all the time. Z brush is good example of great combos app. You can perform so many operations just with LMM+ modifiers or different type of behaviour (click on / drag …). Biggest Flow breakers for me are:
- throw out from tool but Shift + 1 switch to 1 mode. (it's big one but i see that it could be just a part of whole philosophy)
Lack of consistency: to edge slide but 3 for edges in build mode
Shift as brush size sound inefficient compared to alternative tool mode.
Have access to alternative options under shift alt or ctrl i.e: mouse scroll in Loop SOP make division in snap measure. With shift could change division count
Hard to access different selection types - now under ‘9’ and only in selection mode. It’s very useful tool and all selection types are great, but it's hidden.

Radial menu
I tried to rearrange some of those things just for myself, but i couldn't find a way how to assign selection types (which by default are under ‘9’) to radial menu.
I always found that sometimes i want to quick use one tool in different modes. (Like fuse) Radial menu is good place for things like is but again i am not able to do it by myself.

Selection
Other problem i see is that all of those tools are good when your mesh is clear and built of quads. Unfortunately …very often it's not a reality. Most vivid example is semi-loop edge selection. It can find it excellent while working with clear geometry, but try to boolean or polyreduce mesh and select straight line. It's almost impossible and i'm struggling a lot of trying to select my edges (straight mode with shortest path?)
tardigrad3
atlemgw
Hi

I'm an excited Houdini user at hobby-level. I really like the modeling in Houdini. Compared to Maya and Max and other programs with layers, I just think the node-based system is a lot more easy to navigate and move around.

Yesterday I had a chat with a guy from the industry, who told me Houdini was bad choice as a modeling application compared to Maya. The reason was that Maya is the most used application in production-companies. But do You think that could be changed over the years or is Maya just the the best choice? I know Maya, but can't see why it's concidered that great compared to Houdini. I just don't see why people think Maya is so much better.

My question are: Do You think Houdini would become a standard-modelling tool in future? Has it been used as a modelling-application at some companies?


Best regards,
Atle

I'm not a big boy in the industry, but I guess the answer is simple enoughe to even answer by me.
- indi(freelancer) modeler will be stupid to buy Maya for 2000/year (maya LT is THE joke it self so it do not even playes) but will buy Houdini Indi, that is not free as Blender, but it has procedural, node besed modeling paralell to direct modeling (Now I talking about JUST modeling)
- a company for a modeling desk will be stupid to buy Houdini for 5000 when he can buy Maya, Max for 2000/year (some would say: “no, it's becouse of their pipeline” but since USD I doubt that it would count a lot)

The second fact will change by time.. since a lot of ppl will learn and use Houdini true the indi subscription option and sooner or later it will worth for a lot of big companies to pay more for the “modeling desk” it's already an incredible + to make proceduraly bult up assets for games vs direct modeled ones. I guess it's just matter of time and Houdini will be THE standard modeling tool thanks to the wise price range of Houdini Indi.

By the way, I'm wondering, what Maya can do due to direct/parametric modeling that Houdini can not? What Max can do due to parametric/direct modeling that Houdini can not?
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