werwack
Hi,

• - the fact that when we start we usually prefer using the MPlay to receive the rendered images rather than the Render View (it is quite useful to be able to compare a result with previous one, in a floating window, and this approach is similar to Maya),
  

• 
  Did you know you can store renders in the Render View? RMB in viewport & select Color Correction. At the bottom you'll see a little camera icon. When you click on this, it will store the rendered image … with the name you provide in the field beside the icon. To the left of that you can scroll thru the memorized images or use the pull down menu.
  
  And on the far right you have a method to compare images with one another; split, difference, blend, compare.
  
  If you want, you could detach the pane and have a floating window of the Render View. So you can begin to see it's similar to Maya

Did you know you can store renders in the Render View? (…)

Well, no, I didn't. And thanks again for this tip.

In fact if I don't know that, and many other things I am sure, it is because for me there are some major weaknesses in the documentation regarding basic concepts and first steps for beginners. These tips are not mentionned either in the video tutorials I've seen so far because as good as they can be they cannot mention everything.

From a more global point of view, this is quite representative of the current way of learning Houdini (or at least how Side FX lets newcomers learn Houdini - this is not bad-mouthing, this is feedback): basic concepts are just outlined in the documentation and tutorials are given mixed in a big bag, with some general directions but not sorted. Basically you learn on the stack. It is the “you know because you faced the issue and someone told you” way, not because you've found the answer in the documentation or because the GUI is intuitive.

As a newcomer (I must admit I also have a GUI development background) I find some inconsistancies in the GUI of Houdini that don't make life easy when you don't know every tips.

Some of those tips sometimes make some advanced users be kind of proud of what they know and very protective about that and the way Houdini can be learn. This kind of community doesn't really exist with applications that are more accessible (although Houdini is quite technical, I would say that part of the accessibility comes from the content of the documentation).

So my current point of view is: Yes Houdini is a really great application, very powerful, but you have to know why you are learning it or you may give up from the very start. And I find it sad, somehow…

werwack

Did you know you can store renders in the Render View? (…)

Well, no, I didn't. And thanks again for this tip.

In fact if I don't know that, and many other things I am sure, it is because for me there are some major weaknesses in the documentation regarding basic concepts and first steps for beginners. These tips are not mentionned either in the video tutorials I've seen so far because as good as they can be they cannot mention everything.

Totally agree. In the meantime, keep asking questions on these forums and keep those suggestions coming. We gotta a lot of talented & generous artists waiting to help

I like Mantra. I only used mental ray on xsi and 3dsmax before and I think Mantra isn't more difficult. I find it definitely more beautifully implemented and it has many nice and well thought out features.

I think many of the fast-one-click renderers out there are just very streamlined solution. I'm not an expert on these things but I guess under the hood they are not all that different. How many rendering algorithms can there be? There's probably only a handful good and robust solutions, for all to see and study in the literature. The big difference is the infrastructure build around it and Side Effects has a knack for getting that right imho.

As for speed, I think there are several points here. For one, windows is slow to start up mantra. On small scenes and test renders this can deceive you into thinking the renderer is slower than it is. Two, the way the scene is cooked prior to render also slows things down, sometimes considerably, but that is intrinsic to working procedurally and there are ways around it (cache to file, delayed load). And third, setting up your renderer correctly. This is the one thing that requires skill and experience, but if done right it's fast especially with huge huge datasets. (how much faster is “slow” compared to “can't render at all”?)

Edit: There is also the issue with not enough readymade shaders but apparently that is being taken care of in H11.

I have read that Mantra is use in production a lot by big VFX houses, but those houses had lighters TD´s, programmers, etc, etc,

So does any studio using Maya + Prman + MR

Rob

If you want, you could detach the pane and have a floating window of the Render View. So you can begin to see it's similar to Maya Smile

Rob, small question for you: I detached the Render View window and it did exactly what I want so I saved the desktop.
I closed this window because I didn't need it permanently opened. Hum, how can I call it back?
I don't find it listed anywhere and it doesn't show up when I reload the desktop.

Do I have to create a completely new Render View? Activate the settings and tear the pane off again? Every time?


Thx

werwack
Rob, small question for you: I detached the Render View window and it did exactly what I want so I saved the desktop.
I closed this window because I didn't need it permanently opened. Hum, how can I call it back?
I don't find it listed anywhere and it doesn't show up when I reload the desktop.

Like any window, if you close it then you've lost it. You can minimize though.

Do I have to create a completely new Render View? Activate the settings and tear the pane off again? Every time?

I just did a test of tearing off the Render View then saving a new desktop. When I restarted Houdini and selected the new desktop, the floating Render View window appeared.

If you save the hipfile then restart, the floating window doesn't remember the settings Maybe a RFE?

Not sure if I answered your question but I hope it helps.

Hi Rob,

Well, that's the results I also have… :?

I wish MPlay were faster to launch… :roll:

werwack

Did you know you can store renders in the Render View? (…)

Well, no, I didn't. And thanks again for this tip.

In fact if I don't know that, and many other things I am sure, it is because for me there are some major weaknesses in the documentation regarding basic concepts and first steps for beginners. These tips are not mentionned either in the video tutorials I've seen so far because as good as they can be they cannot mention everything.

From a more global point of view, this is quite representative of the current way of learning Houdini (or at least how Side FX lets newcomers learn Houdini - this is not bad-mouthing, this is feedback): basic concepts are just outlined in the documentation and tutorials are given mixed in a big bag, with some general directions but not sorted. Basically you learn on the stack. It is the “you know because you faced the issue and someone told you” way, not because you've found the answer in the documentation or because the GUI is intuitive.

As a newcomer (I must admit I also have a GUI development background) I find some inconsistancies in the GUI of Houdini that don't make life easy when you don't know every tips.

Some of those tips sometimes make some advanced users be kind of proud of what they know and very protective about that and the way Houdini can be learn. This kind of community doesn't really exist with applications that are more accessible (although Houdini is quite technical, I would say that part of the accessibility comes from the content of the documentation).

So my current point of view is: Yes Houdini is a really great application, very powerful, but you have to know why you are learning it or you may give up from the very start. And I find it sad, somehow…

If you want to learn Rendering in Houdini, you need to study Renderman. They are pretty close to eachother, once you understand Renderman basics , they are applicable to Houdini, just that Houdini rpovides you way more sophistication than just a notepad and a commandline renderer.

hi everybody.

three things things:
1. is mantra going to be any faster in h11? and how much.

2. suppose we have a very simple scene. a grid and a sphere on it and a light. there is no texture no material. nothing. how can i render this scene FAST? really FAST.

3. how can i have a sky in the background? i mean all renderers have this world which is kind of the background in the render. how can i have this effect in houdini?

Wish
atikin: don't trust those guys! Mantra is a real sucks! Houdini is sucks too. And renderman is sucks a little. Don't spend your time here and use vray. Vray doesn't strain your brain.

PS: shame on me… I don't ever think that I will tell such horror to smbd

Yep.
For ArchViz stills anyways.
For animation you'll need to oversample VRay to match the slowness of Mantra/Houdini anyways, without the benefits (mantra procedurals, ROPs, takes, etc.).
There's always room for improvement though, so keep up the pressure!

I have several question to you guys, who comes from 3ds max and VRay?
Please, test your self. And decide for yourself, to use mantra(and houdini) or not.OK? Here some questions , it's just a few examples, and sorry for my English :

1.Do you know what REYES algorithm is, and what is the core difference between micro - polygonal renderer and renderer based on raytracing?
What is pixel sampling? Filtering? How it works?

2.Do you know what exactly happens under the hood, when you push render button in your favorite 3d software?What happens with your geometry, shaders, etc., how all of this become a image with pixels?

3.Can you render 2k++ with full motion blur, dof, hairs and displacement?

4.Can you quickly make ANY shader, for ANY purpose you need? For example a shader for changing color or displacement in collision points for your RBD simulation? Or shader for coloring hairs within fluids? And all of this right here, in houdini, without any plugins?

5. Can you export ANY render pass for compositing? Not only that, which are given by developers.

6. Can you render geometry as points? Use rendertime polygon subdivisions ? Geometry shaders? Can you use something like .rat textures, without any resolution limit use benefits of MIP maps?

7. The simplest ever task. Can you render a simple curve witch thickness increases over the length and color changing accordingly.Ok, 100 of those curves with different colors?

8.Can you render millions of particles, right from your package, without
any “Krakatoa” and etc.

9. Do you know what is the “shading language”? Like VEX, or RSL. What is the difference between shaders in C/C++ for your 3d package ,and shader in VEX for mantra? Or RSL for PRman.

10. And finally , ask your self: “ Maybe i should go and learn some fundamentals of 3d, and not trolling houdini forum about slow renderer” Because houdini IS the fundamentals of 3d.

And when you can answer “YES” for 9 of 10 question, you will probably choose mantra, for all your rendering work (except architectural visualization).
8)

Stalkerx777
And when you can answer “YES” for 9 of 10 question, you will probably choose mantra, for all your rendering work (except architectural visualization).
8)

I'm testing mantra for ArchViz with excellent results. You can not scatter thousands of tree with Vray without a plugin. Mantra is quick and very capable of ArchViz