Debate question - should SideFX invest in paint/sculpt?

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I have used 3d coat, houdini, blender, maya, and other tools to model but zbrush actually works for me. I'd love it if Houdini has some more modeling tools but i dont see any value in it in production apart from making quick placeholder art. But yes would be nice to have. I dont remember the last project where from start to finish ive only used one software. But feel free to use whatever you want to use, as many or as little tools as you want.

I don't get your insistence that someone will be 'left in the dust' if another software does something better. Learning more software once you know the principles is not hard.
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Well it may have happened for the first time with Next Gen (Netflix movie).
And it was 100% made with Blender.
Even if some sculpting was made in ZBrush (because the artists were more familiar with it).
A lot of sculpting and retouching was made withe the Blender sculpting and painting tools.
They even only used the Blender compositor, not the big compositing sofware.
https://youtu.be/iZn3kCsw5D8 [youtu.be]


To be fair, it is difficult to compare in this specific situation because it is mostly about "motion graphics" and not VFX.


With Blender, Unreal and Unity pushing new features like crazy.
Houdini better keep the pace.

Maya does not need to add anything, it is a useless software without thousands of dollars of plugins.
Maya is a blocking popup fest where the UI is always hidden underneath tons of flaoting windows.
Maya is only loosing users, never gaining any.
Autodesk is hated just like Adobe.
Autodesk knows that Maya and 3DS Max are dead, why invest money on a cadaver? They don't.

C4D is stuck with its users.
There are many leaving to Blender and Houdini.
They are easy to spot, they are the only one using Redshift (Redsh..).
There is no C4D version to learn the software
There is no Indie version like Maya, Max and Houdini.
It is the most expensive software and the most limited.
They refuse to implement basic features because they want to sell their other crappy companion software.
C4D does not exist in our world.

With better generalized tools, Houdini could gain slowly but surely more users.
More Maya slaves would be tempted to move to Houdini.
Like I said, Houdini has the workflow on its side.
There are Blender people that move to Houdini as it gets better at the basic features.

I believe that using many 3D software for a project is a sign that there is something wrong with the main software.
Working with 2 sofware to do the same thing in 2022-2023 is as bad having the modeler and animator as 2 separate software.
Everything is open source and documented, they just have to copy the feature from elsewhere and attach their UI to it.
Technically all the tools and mechanics are already implemented in Houdini.
So they would only need to add things here and there.
If you can weight painting, you can paint and sculpt.

If houdini was open source, I could have downloaded the code and implement that feature myself and give it back.
Ok, I could also do a plugin for houdini.
I am too lazy to actually do any of this.

All the stand alone 3D modeler are dying, their days are numbered.
I like MOI (Momement of Inspiration) made by the guy who created Rhino.
It is a cool solid/nurbs modeler that generate perfect mesh and UV.
But even I became too lazy to export and import the models.

In 10 years, VFX will be made by AI anyways: I want a medieval town that explodes. done.

Houdini needs AI node to create models and materials.
AI Node that takes a text as input and genereate a textured model from that description.
AI Node text input : dirty beer glass bottle -> creates a MaterialX for you.

Eventually AI will be just asking to see a kind of movie, and the AI will generate one just for you on the fly.
Edited by MarquisDeSang - 2022年9月2日 22:19:41
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I do 3D animation since 1989 mostly as an amateur

this checks out
MOPs (Motion Operators for Houdini): http://www.motionoperators.com [www.motionoperators.com]
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I'm not a drug taker, but I would defo like to try what you are on, it seems inter-dimensional.
I'm not lying, I'm writing fiction with my mouth.
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You think you are special because you pay for your 3D software?
The more software you use, the more productive and talented you are?
You probably pay for bottled water instead of drinking from the tap.

I may not be any good at 3DCG.
I may not have worked for a studio.
I amy not have produced anything great.
Like you imply, I am just at the bottom -> a simple and useless amateur.
It is irrelevant to this conversation who I am.
I don't matter, only ideas matter.

Insults are not an argument.
You start attacking me because you have no counter arguments.
Your feelings are not facts.

None of you (anti sculpting/painting) have managed to find 1 single new feature or improvement that you want for Houdini.
So if Houdini has already everything you need, why being against a feature that all 3D software now have?

What I said here is only facts based on evidence and a lot of experience.
A real 3D project requires sculpting and painting (other than abstract and terrain).
All 3D artist that create realistic objects have to use sculpting at some point.
It is a tool that is expected in a 3D software in 2022.
Many people are not jumping on Houdini because of that fact alone.

Also Houdini does not have camera tracking/camera motion tracking from a video.
Electric Image (now EIAS3D) had that feature 25 years ago and of course Blender has it.
And in Blender it is not a simple feature it is the real deal.
Being used in production, not just a gimmick.
Also an essential tool.

There will be a day when the artists will have to pay for their own software.
Just like electric and electronic techniciens have to provide their own tools.
The employer never provides tools.
The studios are now using Blender more and more,
if an employee wants to work with somehthing else,
you think the studios are gonna pay for it? Never.

The fact that all projects using Houdini are using ZBrush is a sign that Houdini is missing something.
ZBrush was bought by C4D and they will "Softimaged" it.
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I am gonna drop a joke just to lighten the mood.

Houdini is more used for destruction than creation.

The assets you make in other 3D software, will eventually be destroyed in Houdini.
Houdini the place where the assets go to die (explode, burn, smoke, flodded) in a spectacular way.
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well, i will point out that you are contradicting yourself:

"I may not be any good at 3DCG.
I may not have worked for a studio.
I amy not have produced anything great."

and immediately followed by
"What I said here is only facts based on evidence and a lot of experience."

btw, i worked on many projects that require zero sculpting, so
https://twitter.com/oossoonngg [twitter.com]
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Here we come again.
Edited by raincole - 2022年9月3日 14:36:15

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I am a programmer, I probably make more money than any of you.
While I create the fundation you stand on with my programing
(and once in a while a little bit on industrial drafting and engineering),
you are just creating images to entertain people.

Nothing wrong with that, I enjoy it myself... as a hobby to relax.
But you should know your place in society... as an artist.

Because this thread is going knowhere.
I will wait for somebody to tell us what feature Houdini requires
more important than sclupting and painting tools.

In the meantime, I am enjoying a lot Houdini, even with the technical problems.
There is an impressive tutorial on youtube where a guy is building a church procedurally.
I am beginning to see why something so simple would be better created with the help of parameter-relationship.
Edited by MarquisDeSang - 2022年9月3日 15:52:17
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MarquisDeSang
I am a programmer, I probably make more money than any of you.
nah, i'm filthy rich
MarquisDeSang
While I create the fundation you stand on with my programing
(and once in a while a little bit on industrial drafting and engineering),
you are just creating images to entertain people.
.
bruh
https://twitter.com/oossoonngg [twitter.com]
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Are you guys stupid or something? Stop feeding the very obvious troll who is having his way with you guys, and let this embarrassment die off. Not sure what the hell the mods are up to, but this should have been locked ages ago.
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Agreed

>>>Debate question - should SideFX invest in paint/sculpt?
Some people said yes, some other said no.
We had our fun.
This thread has served its purpose.
It is time to move on and go back to work.

Nice jousting with you guys and nice meeting you.

I have a lot of respect for sculptors,
because not like me,
they are actually talented while I am more of a nurbs2poly guy.

In a debate, nothing should be taken 1st level,
we are only throwing ideas agains others.
And teasing each other in passing.
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https://youtu.be/jRMy6lxlqjM [youtu.be]

And here is the algorithm and math to actually do it.
Trust me SideFX are already testing these things and they have the PDF on their computer.
http://computationalsciences.org/publications/shao-2022-multigrid/shao-2022-multigrid.pdf [computationalsciences.org]

Impressive stuff that is now public knowledge.
We have the best mind on the planet working on improving simulation.
Then it is up to sofware developers to bring us these technologies in a usable and controllable form.

Improvement is always needed because after a few years, our eyes get used to CG and we can spot it.


I remmember in the very early 90's, there was a worldwide 3D cg competition in Montreal.
Many amazing 1-2 minutes clips were presented.
But there was only one where no one applauded.
I watched it asking myself, why is this presented here, it is real film after all.

It was a car driving on a gravel then crossing a river (floating on water).

When it was revealed at the end that this clip won the competition we were all confused.
Everyone in the theater was puzzle.
Then we began to realized that this was not real film. It was 3D CG animation mixed with real footage (first time we ever saw that).
WOW!

Also in Montreal (montreal was the center 3D CG at one time because of Softimage until Autodesk...) there was a live Newtek presentation about a new version of Lightwave 3D (Amiga 1000) with a revolutionary feature : bones and bone deformation (not sure it had IK). It was so exciting, no need for multiple models and morphing between models. All these things that we take for granted now, I am so lucky to have seen them from birth to what they are now. I was a young kid at that time hanging with adult friends who were working in the cg and video editing industry.

And to this very day, when I watch what the new software can do, I always feel the magic. 3D CG is magic and we are magicians.
Edited by MarquisDeSang - 2022年9月4日 14:07:48
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Why aren't you already using blender ? It seems logical that if Blender has exponential growth and will swallow all the artists in the upcoming years, it would make sense for you to use Blender in the longterm, no ?

I'm genuinely curious.

With your longtime experience in the industry and your skills in programming you could contribute to Blender and possibly make better tools than Houdini has to offer.

I prefer Houdini's UI and workflow and for me this is the most important thing.
Houdini has better modeling tool for me. I prefer to start most models with Splines, Nurbs and Bezier meshes, then convert them to poly for further details and fusion. Blender feels more like a low-poly videogame modeler.

Also the UI color theme I made for Houdini is the best I have ever seen (for my own taste), it took me 16 hours to make it. And I intend on making a youtube torial about it because no one ever did a real them, only modification of 1 o 2 colors. As soon as the screen recording software start working again on the latest Ubunut update (they all stopped working). Blender does not have any color theme as beautiful as my Houdini theme (again for my own taste).

Houdini's sculpting and paint tool are enough for me.

I want Houdini to live long and prosper. I am everywhere on the internet, so I know what people want in Houdini. I am fighting for the younger generation here. So maybe asking for features here is useless because you are all already on Houdini. The important thing is young people and the artist that are eying Houdini, but don't do the jump because it is lacking basic stuff here and there.

I think I have more to contribute to Houdini than Blender. There are no useful Houdini tutorial in my opinion for beginners. Only procedural bragging and abstract stuff. I will make a tutorial for people who have never used a 3D software before and give a more generalist approach : model a simple subdivision model (a real model, not just a shape), do the UV mapping with STRAIGHTEN (this super important feature has never been explained with Houdini that is why all Houdini UV tutorials have ugly UV's), some shader creation (texture + displacement), some of my special trick to weather models (spherical uv projection over the whole model), lighting, camera and some simple keyframe animation then render. It would give a good start because with only that, the person could understand the basis of doing 3D CG animation. Because I have a talent to make complex stuff simple and teach it, I could be more useful for Houdini's beginners.
Edited by MarquisDeSang - 2022年9月5日 17:42:58
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I eagerly await this Tutorial of yours.
I'm not lying, I'm writing fiction with my mouth.
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Well, here we are at the end of the thread where I lock off a topic that started off interesting but degraded into people insulting each other. Keep it civil or the thread gets locked - it's pretty simple. Repeat offenders will get banned. (even if they change their names - sooo sneaky)
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