Mac Pro, Metal & moving forward

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What makes no sense is that we have been with OpenGL API for 30 years and other derivatives, and it turns out that Redshift, Octane, Renderman, 3Delight, Vray GPU, Arnold GPU, only accelerate with CUDA, without them they are CPU engines for life. That's why I tell you that everything is SMOKE because what they haven't done in 30 years they won't do in 6 months. Nor will they invent a new technology based on graphic chips to accelerate representations as in an Nvidia RTX.
Edited by Fco Javier - 2020年2月10日 11:09:51
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Fco Javier
What makes no sense is that we have been with OpenGL API for 30 years and other derivatives, and it turns out that Redshift, Octane, Renderman, 3Delight, Arnold GPU, only accelerate with CUDA, without them they are CPU engines for life. That's why I tell you that everything is SMOKE because what they haven't done in 30 years they won't do in 6 months. Nor will they invent a new technology based on graphic chips to accelerate representations as in an Nvidia RTX.

Okay salesperson. Not buying whatever you're here to sell. I've told you multiple times, nobody cares.

Constructive information and thoughts pertaining to working on Macs and Mac Workflows or you have nothing of significance to add here. And since you clearly don't own a Mac, work on Macs, or want to work on Macs, back to the fire pits you weird little salesman devil or you will be ignored from here on out.
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Fco Javier
What makes no sense is that we have been with OpenGL API for 30 years and other derivatives, and it turns out that Redshift, Octane, Renderman, 3Delight, Vray GPU, Arnold GPU, only accelerate with CUDA, without them they are CPU engines for life. That's why I tell you that everything is SMOKE because what they haven't done in 30 years they won't do in 6 months. Nor will they invent a new technology based on graphic chips to accelerate representations as in an Nvidia RTX.

Noted, thank you. We don't care. Now please go away or get reported for trolling.
>>Kays
For my Houdini tutorials and more visit:
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SreckoM
BTW are there any 3delight videos where I can see it working on more production ready scenes, not simple, test objects?

Watch Chappie, apparently 3DL was used extensively on that film:




It was also used in Wolverine, but I don't know to what extent.
>>Kays
For my Houdini tutorials and more visit:
https://www.youtube.com/c/RightBrainedTutorials [www.youtube.com]
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Cloud is being used on big production assets all the time dude. If you aren't seeing that, you're not working at one of the bigger studios.

As for 3delight and Production assets, why not download it and throw something at it? I can tell you it is currently murdering every other renderer on 2 billion voxel 4k res fire and smoke. With multi scatter btw.

That's good to know and certainly peaks my interest to give it a try.

But I guess the question is of cost.

Not going to mention names of companies, because compared to the other ones I looked at the one I tried for a bit seemed to give good rates. But even so, I felt with the amount of rendering I would like to do, that over a period of time - I might was well put out some money into my own render farm.

Having gone through that, I felt studios likely do a mix of both having their own farms and cloud.

My thinking is that a typical studio might project their typical client job size, and set up a render farm to accomadate that ‘average’. However, real life dictactes at times they may have a larger than average sized project(renderwise) or shorter than usual time constraint.

I would think in these cases a studio would employ their own farm but also use the cloud too to pick up the ‘slack’.

But all this is just my guessing.
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Midphase
callie_btw
I'm admittedly ignorant on this. From my understanding, 3Delight has never worked in Cinema 4D. Only in Maya.

Yes, I was referring about 3Delight which seems to be a compelling new renderer with a time-to-first-pixel comparable to Redshift. My understanding is that there is a C4D beta version in the works (possibly already available?), you'll need to download the beta from their site and see for yourself.

On the RS forums, someone keeps mentioning that RS (and possibly Octane) will need to wait until OSX 10.15.5 to be released (have no idea why, but supposedly it will include some necessary Metal API updates?).

I'm testing 3Delight at the moment, but if I can achieve a reasonably fast performance out of it, I might switch because I really like what I'm seeing.


P.S.

As an aside thought…rendering (and computing) is moving to the cloud. In a few years, OS platform fights and those guys running 8 2080ti GPU's in their machines are going to look ridiculous.



3delight uses the same engine as Renderman “Monte carlo” and is as old as Renderman, I used it in XSI and also a time in C4D in 2002. Anyway.
Edited by Fco Javier - 2020年2月10日 13:28:30
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Fco Javier
3delight uses the same engine as Renderman “Monte carlo” and is as old as Renderman, I used it in XSI and also a time in C4D in 2002. Anyway.

I think Foundry would be also very interested in this information as they currently ship the vfx industry's standard lighting tool, used in Hollywood blockbusters, that Solaris is trying to upend, with 3delight. Thank you for your research.
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> 3delight uses the same engine as Renderman “Monte carlo” and is as old as Renderman,
> I used it in XSI and also a time in C4D in 2002. Anyway.

I will answer because this information is deceiving, though it has little to do with macOS/metal.

3Delight NSI is a new renderer, that uses the NSI API and OSL. It is currently at version 1.7. Version 1 was released around an year ago.

3Delight NSI has pretty much nothing in common with the old version, simply known as 3Delight (which was RI-RenderMan compliant and used RSL for shading).

NSI leverages on all the experience accumulated over the years of course, it offers a beautifully simple API, and focuses on extreme ease of use. Quality and performance are paramount, and it also offers a unique system for Cloud rendering. It is integrated in Maya and Katana, with Houdini and Cinema4D in beta.
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The new APIs of any render have nothing to do with the path tracing algorithm (Monte Carlo) invented by James Kajiya, that algorithm is present in the nucleus of 3delight, Renderman, Arnold, Vray. I will give you an example, the MacOS kernel is still a copy of Free BSD and Apple all it does is change the API but the core of the operating system remains the same since OSX was invented, this is the same for the core of the render, therefore, 3delight has not fit the equation (Nucleus) and I doubt that in The Foundry there is some illustrious math that has created another algorithm other than Mr. James Kajiya. Have you ever thought why render times are so similar? The answer is in the path tracing.
Edited by Fco Javier - 2020年2月11日 03:26:09
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You mean “Monte Cristo”, by James Kajima.

-> Book Reference [orly-appstore.herokuapp.com]
Edited by pbdj - 2020年2月11日 03:19:00
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No no, it's the Count of Monte Cristo algorithm, invented around 1898 I believe.
I'm not lying, I'm writing fiction with my mouth.
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You are joking but actually there is a paper pending about this, we discussed a lot about it (over multiple bottles of liquor), with Jos and Aghiles. I give a small hint for the curious ones: the sampling is based on a quasi random sequence of numbers where each sample is strictly a multiple of 5, with two exceptions: the first and last sample don't have to respect this rule. We will elaborate in the paper. Check it out at SIGGRAPH, the tile is “Quasi Monte Cristo Sampling” (we are looking for early reviewers BTW…)
Edited by pbdj - 2020年2月11日 03:30:46
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If that is the only thing you have, to discuss I think it says it all del level.
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Javier,

Render times are NOT similar, they vary wildly, in no small part to the API of said renderers.
Along with bunch of other Magic. The Monte Cristo is not what you think.

Ah Pbdj the Jos Stam / Aghiles tech! Amazing.
I'm not lying, I'm writing fiction with my mouth.
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Ah Pbdj the Jos Stam / Aghiles tech! Amazing.

I don't want to sound cocky but it was mostly an idea of yours truly, J & A were heavily contributing on those bottles though.
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tinyhawkus
Javier,

Render times are NOT similar, they vary wildly, in no small part to the API of said renderers.
Along with bunch of other Magic. The Monte Cristo is not what you think.

Ah Pbdj the Jos Stam / Aghiles tech! Amazing.

Of course, they are not similar, because it is very difficult to configure two engines at 100% of the same quality, but if you could configure it and share the same shaders in OSL or C ++, you will see that they are very similar there are almost no differences, why than? Algorithms are what they are.
Edited by Fco Javier - 2020年2月11日 05:48:23
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This is all very interesting, but we could/should continue the conversation in the more appropriate thread I created last week specifically about 3Delight:

3Delight Renderer… [www.sidefx.com]
Edited by Midphase - 2020年2月11日 11:10:00
>>Kays
For my Houdini tutorials and more visit:
https://www.youtube.com/c/RightBrainedTutorials [www.youtube.com]
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