Hi there

Have been playing with Apprentice lately looking into getting HD version.
Something I'd like to ask on rendering since it's a renderer I'm currently looking for ( rest is bonus )

If I click on the Render Control button for Mantra the Quality only goes up to Normal. Also at maximum resolution (640 x 480) I get jaggies on the outline of the Alpha mask. Just wanted to know if I can expect more from Mantra or is this it? Does HD have high quality settings?

I know using renderers like Gelato that even at low res I get nicely anti aliased outlines in the alpha channel. Can I expect the same from Mantra?
Are these features not available in the Apprentice version?

Cheers.

There aren't any restrictions in the regular version of Apprentice as far as pixel samples go.

The “Quality” settings drop down menu is a general place to start if you're currently testing your scene, but it isn't the only place to adjust your render quality by far.

The subject of optimizing Mantra is beyond the scope of a forum post, but you can look into the “Sampling” tab in your Mantra properites. Specifically adjusting “Pixel Samples” has an affect on your renders, but you will sacrafice speed so be careful.

Try to optimize your shaders, lights, shadows, displacement, texture maps, etc. first before adjusting your Pixel Samples too high.

Also, look at the Old School Blog's post on Quantization Filters. There's some good info there. Old School Blog - Quantization Filters [sidefx.com]

I'm sure there's pros here with much more insight into Mantra then I could give, but hopefully that gets you some better results.

Thanks for the reply.

So you're saying there is a high quality setting behind the render control button in Houdini (non apprentice) ?

No luck here whatsoever I've even tried Dicing to up the shading quality,
upping the pixel samples (16 x 16) increasing Min and Max values for ray variance antialiasing (couple tries)
and I've looked at the article on quantization, don't think that's it either.

Again the problem is bad aliasing in Apprentice when looking at the silhouette in the Alpha channel.
I wonder if you have any recommended anti aliasing settings for this?

I honestly get much better results with other Renderman compliant renderers out there even at 640 x 480.
Would love to find out more since Houdini HD looks like such an amazing buy these days.
But I think Mantra is the only option in HD and if I can't get quality with it may as well pass on the whole deal

Are you starting Mantra directly from the Output node? Or are you starting the render from the menu on the bottom left of the viewport?
If you are doing the later then the anti-aliasing is turned off to facilitate a faster render.

Huh, now that makes sense (I think?)

Funny enough my Apprentice license just expired and
am now wondering how to renew that.

The license server won't let me in I wonder if it should.
Otherwise, I don't get prompted to renew the license either..
Now that I was almost convinced that Houdini was my next Cg tool it looks like it's trying to quit on me..

Thanks for the reply.
Just managed to get new licenses in the server.

Ok, I can definitely see that anti-aliasing now started working
Any suggestions on getting best results?
Does Ray Variance work with min and max values?
Maybe the Pixel Samples have most effect?

I'm lost here I can see it but I can't boost it yet.

Ray Variance is an opimization to enhance rendering speed .vs. quality wrt raytracing only. Have you done the Lighting tutorial video? (See in the menus at the top of the forum) This should answer some questions and possibly address some workflow issues you might be experiencing - it sounds as if you're just pressing the wrong button or something.

Ok I understand then that Ray Variance doesn't come into play
if you're using the default PBR MicroPolygon render then.
Yes I think I was pressing the wrong button thanks.

AA and all things looking better now.
Close call for me between CatmullRom and Gaussian.

Boosting Pixel Samples seems to have some effect in getting better AA?
All left for me to ask really is if there's a best way of increasing AA
(specially alpha outlines)

Yes I did the H9 lighting tuts and am now looking at the older H8 ones.
Cheers and Happy Holidays.

It looks like increasing shading rate at object level seems to have a positive effect on anti-aliasing as well?

Still not very clear if I'm using Ray Variance AA since I'm not using environment lights and prefer the old fashioned occlusion pass + compositing.
Sheesh I get confused trying to learn Houdini as a rendering tool with all the settings.

Maybe I have to get a book on all this.

Hi there,

What is it you're rendering? A still? A solid surface? Particles? Could you post a little screengrab and a render?

Hi Jason. I've been thinking mostly of rendering characters I put together based on my own or someone's concept. Compositing Rigging Dynamics and Animation would be something really nice to learn along as well. Here's my last experiments (concept by Flog) and he's still unfinished but that might change soonish. I like to work with SubD surfaces and am starting to scuplt as well (Silo 2)

Any crits on how to improve most welcome. I think the AA is beginning to look OK?

I put the model through a fake gi pass and a COP2 network after that.
I wonder how much of an improvement it ends up being?

Maybe I should be finishing this guy up instead of playing with Houdini