3D Mouse and camera/view pivot

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Please, tell me if I understand it right.

With 3D mouse:
- the position of the “camera/view pivot” is somehow approximated and moves relative to the camera/eye


It is really hard to use. I have Space Navigator. Please, if you have a 3D mouse, try this:
- make two cubes, one at origin, second far from origin (10,0,0 is enough)
- orbit around the “origin” cube … this is fine
- move to the “far” cube and try to orbit around it … this goes quite well, the pivot “quite goes with you”
- move back to the “origin” cube … now the pivot is really somewhere, unknown, I dont know where
- try to move to the “far” cube again … now the pivot is unusable for any of the cubes
- after some more attempts … this seems to approximate “pivot position = camera position”


I may be wrong, as I have the 3D mouse second day, please correct me.

Setting the pivot manualy (Z or Shift-Z hotkey) is not a solution for this behaviour.

With classic mouse or Wacom tablet:
- view and camera rotate around a DEFAULT RELATIVE pivot, which is in front of camera and moves with the camera, and is relatively fixed to camera/eye (Euler tumbling)
- I can set the pivot to some geometry (Z or Shift-Z hotkey)
- this behaviour is not perfect for classic mouse, but it would be good for 3D mouse, or why not?
- do we have hotkey to reset the pivot to that “DEFAULT RELATIVE”?
Edited by ikoon - March 3, 2017 01:30:39
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Moin,

I tried your suggestion and don't have any real problems with orbiting around the cubes in whatever order. Using a 3d mouse does need a bit of practise. The way it “feels to me” is: Tilting and rotating happen around a virtual center point. This center point can be moved by using the move/in-out/up-down axis. So if you want to rotate a point that is off-center (screenwise), you “side-step” the virtual center point by pushing the mouse knob to the side while rotating (the rotation center returns to viewport center once you stop using the side/updown/inout axis).
In other words: You are actually using more than one axis on the controller if you want to orbit/move around some object that is off-center on screen, but only one axis if you orbit/move around an object center-screen.

Marc

P.S. It would be nice to have a way to define an off-center rotation “pivot”, but personally I find using the viewport center as the main rotation pivot sufficient.
Edited by malbrecht - March 3, 2017 03:23:24
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Out of here. Being called a dick after having supported Houdini users for years is over my paygrade.
I will work for money, but NOT for "you have to provide people with free products" Indie-artists.
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Hello Albrecht,
thank you very VERY very much for your answer. You are right, that “side-stepping” solves this strange “gimbal lock” I had.

- my problem was that I had “zoomed in” and I thought that I am “stepping forward”, right?
- I thought, that I am “stepping forward” and I was just moving the pivot closer to the camera and “locking” the pivot to the cam

Well … there is not “step forward” with the 3D mouse, right? This probably makes sense

Now I am happy and I recommend 3D mouse to everybody. It is amazing. I have just the Space Navigator, close to the keyboard, and I am quite able to orbit with midfinger and forefinger and also can hold ctrl/shift with my thumb. This should be great for modellers.

Many thanks Albrecht!
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As someone who is using a wacom tablet and considering the Space Navigator is it practical to use them together, or would I have to go back to a mouse input?
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Hello Chriss,
I am:
- on Wacom Intuos many years (XL for 30" LCD), happy
- without mouse many years, quite happy (you know, no wheel)
- with Space Navigator second day, amazed

So I dont have much experience with 3D mouse, but I think that wacom is no problem. Or why should it be?
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Hi, Chris,

I love using Stylus + 3dMouse. In fact … I often say that I refuse to use 3d software that does not sufficiently support both

For H16 I created a short overview on using a 3d mouse with hotkeys - because that might be the most important thing if you are used to a programmable mouse (with additional buttons):



Marc
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Out of here. Being called a dick after having supported Houdini users for years is over my paygrade.
I will work for money, but NOT for "you have to provide people with free products" Indie-artists.
Good bye.
https://www.marc-albrecht.de [www.marc-albrecht.de]
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Btw important notice: I have tried 3D mouse formerly on one conference and I was disappointed. Now I know, that it was because of reversed orbit settings. Everybody has his own “understanding” if the mouse should be reversed or not. Now I have borrowed one from my friend and he told me to try reversed and … wow
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Definitely play with the settings - and use the learning program (if that still exists, haven't looked at it for ages).

That said, there are people who just cannot do with this style of navigation, which one has to accept. The good thing is: Those devices sell very well second hand, so if you really don't “get it”, selling it with only a small loss should be possible.

3dConnexion also has student rebates (considerable ones) and offers some trade-in. If you can find a damaged, not trade-in-marked 3dmouse, you can get some decent price drop for either shipping it in or sending proof of its destruction.

Marc
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Out of here. Being called a dick after having supported Houdini users for years is over my paygrade.
I will work for money, but NOT for "you have to provide people with free products" Indie-artists.
Good bye.
https://www.marc-albrecht.de [www.marc-albrecht.de]
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Great, thanks for the quick overview video Marc.
Cinema 4d also supports it as far as I can tell so I will definitely consider one.
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I have C4D here and it supports Space Navigator. The behaviour of the “view pivot” in C4D is slightly different than above described Houdini behaviour.
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I have an enhancement request to allow the locking of the horizon (this is an option on all Autodesk applications and Modo too). It helps keep things far more fluid when using a 3dConnexion device.

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Moin, Jonathan,

to lock the horizon you can disable the tilt channel. I think that is exactly what modo is doing: Ignore that single channel.

Marc

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dadado.PNG (29.0 KB)

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Out of here. Being called a dick after having supported Houdini users for years is over my paygrade.
I will work for money, but NOT for "you have to provide people with free products" Indie-artists.
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It's not the same.

When you disable tilt and rotate round your object you get a tilt as part of the rotation that you can't correct because you no longer have any control over the tilt.

It's not just Autodesk and Modo that provide the lock horizon option and they all do it for good reason.

I'm fine with the current driver in Houdini. The only thing I change is to reverse all of the options. I think that comes from a misspent youth spending far too much of my spare time playing flight sims.

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I'd like to try but I'm on H15, maybe wait for updated drivers by 3Dconnexion ?
【T】【C】【S】
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> I'd like to try but I'm on H15, maybe wait for updated drivers by 3Dconnexion ?

3d Mouse support is not available in Houdini 15, only in Houdini 16.

As for the horizon lock: File an RFE - the more people want changes to the implementation, the more likely it is that E. has another go at it.

Marc
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Out of here. Being called a dick after having supported Houdini users for years is over my paygrade.
I will work for money, but NOT for "you have to provide people with free products" Indie-artists.
Good bye.
https://www.marc-albrecht.de [www.marc-albrecht.de]
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Do I have to click any option to make it work? I have the SpaceNavigator and it doesn't let me move around (trying in Houdini Apprentice).
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@oxpal: Make sure that you have the Qt5 version of H16 installed (the one that does not have any mentioning of “Qt4” in its installation filename), otherwise there is no magic trick …

Marc
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Out of here. Being called a dick after having supported Houdini users for years is over my paygrade.
I will work for money, but NOT for "you have to provide people with free products" Indie-artists.
Good bye.
https://www.marc-albrecht.de [www.marc-albrecht.de]
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I had H16 and then added the 3D mouse afterwards. It did not work, so I have reinstalled the H16 and the mouse is working now.
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Thanks Marc and ikoon, that was it - must have downloaded the wrong Houdini version (a bit unclear what q4 is supposed to be).
Also having the tilt issue now, where rotating would slowly mess up the horizon. But anyways, it's nice to be able to use it.
Edited by oxpal - March 16, 2017 11:51:01
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As regards locking of the horizon … isn't it possible to script it somehow? The Z component of rotation should be zero, but simple “lock parameter” doesn't work. It is deeper somewhere, does it really require Sesi to implement it?
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