New tools in Max. Your two cents please...

   21293   44   1
User Avatar
Member
210 posts
Joined: 1月 2014
Offline
I don't wanna say “I said this before” but I said this before.
Kind of like my prophecy is becoming reality.
I wanna point out something I've said over one year ago, here is a little reminder:
Korny Klown2

Just the other day I was watching this review of Softimage ICE and I was impressed. Procedural modeling particle simulations, crowd simulations and what not with the look and feel of an Autodesk product. Procedural modeling, particle simulation and so on have been long time the unique characteristic of Houdini….and then came Softimage ICE.
I'm thinking a bit into the future. I wanna come away from Maya because I'm working with Nuke for comp, I'm looking for a procedural nodebased 3D software that gives me the same amount of flexibility, as Nuke. At the moment I still like the idea of Houdini bit more but depending on the direction Autodesk will develop Softimage in, I see serious competition for Houdini. Beyond that, considering that it is an Autodesk product, with the look and feel of an Autodesk product, with the shortcuts of an Autodesk product but with the nodebased procedural power similar to Houdini, what do you think, the studios and the Autodesk users will choose when it comes to switching software. Probably something they are already used to. I just hope that Side Effects will realize that they are facing serious competion and since I am a fan of Houdini I hope that they can keep pace with that.
Waving the “fully procedural nodebased” sign and resting on these laurels is not enough anymore. And if it is not Softimage, someday some software will come that completly replaces Houdini, in all aspects, so if Side Effects would ask me for advice (which they wouldn't do, I know), I would say: Stop sticking too much to the old paradigms, modernise Houdini, the industry doesn't sleep.

mandrake0
the sad thing is that Autodesk has mostly dropped the development of Softimage XSI. When you see what type of releases they had in the last 2-3 Years it was just a bad joke. i think last year the main feature from the new XSI was a camera sequencer!

Korny Klown2
Well, you'll never know what Autodesk is about to do in the future. Maybe they dropped the development for XSI just to rearrange things and then re-releasing it under a different name.

That being said….BOOM! Max 2016 [cgchannel.com]
What do you think about the new Max features and what impact does it have on Houdini?
User Avatar
Member
4189 posts
Joined: 6月 2012
Offline
tah-dah! it's called commercial competition; it's happened before and will happen in the future, regardless of so-called prophetic people.
User Avatar
Member
638 posts
Joined: 6月 2006
Offline
there was a big wish list from the 3ds max community. i think even alembic support is only now integrated when you think that softimage had the support and was EOL last year was a big slap in the face for the 3ds max community.

features are coming that's for sure the question is more like how much access do you get. that the creation graph is only 3ds max is for me a big surprise. i was thinking they will do this stuff in bitfrost and make a integration into 3ds max. would be a bigger task but it would have been transferable between there tools.

and for last: congratulation too autodesk to this update they have made a good job.
User Avatar
Member
66 posts
Joined:
Offline
It's autodesk, I am sure the creation graph has several places specifically designed to swiftly kick the user in crotch.

I am sure creation graph will be great for people using 3ds max, however I doubt it will compete on the same level as Houdini. Creation graph is a tacked on after thought add-on. Houdini's genetics is nodes.
User Avatar
スタッフ
3456 posts
Joined: 7月 2005
Offline
“… seems to be primarily geometry-related, with the examples shown in the video covering the creation of procedural geometry and scattering objects across a surface.”

so a small subset of the tools available in SOPs that can be wrapped up as assets…

sure for max users this might be valuable…but doesn't really effect Houdini users, or those who might be looking to move to, or add, Houdini for their work…
Michael Goldfarb | www.odforce.net
Training Lead
SideFX
www.sidefx.com
User Avatar
Member
1647 posts
Joined: 3月 2009
Offline
What do you think about the new Max features and what impact does it have on Houdini?

Do I read your question correctly as “Will the new Max finally be able to kill Houdini?!?!?!” ?

If so:
Nope. It won't. It will make their lives a bit easier. That's it.
Martin Winkler
money man at Alarmstart Germany
User Avatar
Member
4 posts
Joined: 11月 2014
Offline
I think it was a nice move. For most of the people this tool will be enough, so they wont even think about switching to Houdini. Because of that, it can still have an impact on Houdini…
On the other hand, there`s a huge possibility that it will have a lof of bugs and it will crash all the time if not, then probably it will be slow. :-p
User Avatar
Member
136 posts
Joined: 1月 2014
Offline
Korny Klown2
I don't wanna say “I said this before” but I said this before.
Kind of like my prophecy is becoming reality.
Korny Klown2
Well, you'll never know what Autodesk is about to do in the future. Maybe they dropped the development for XSI just to rearrange things and then re-releasing it under a different name.

That being said….BOOM! Max 2016 [cgchannel.com]
What do you think about the new Max features and what impact does it have on Houdini?

Well, i will be short(at least will try). This shows that Autodesk is SCARED about Houdini. The idiot move they did with Softimage(a better software then Max and Maya COMBINED) has created a huge stir in community. Much bigger then they anticipated, and now they try to contain the bleeding. It's like they openly say: " look, it's no need to move to Houdini, we got you covered'. Well, allow me to disagree with you. From what i've seen it's just a retard version of SOP. Nothing about low level access(you now, that little thing called VEX in Houdini, or ICE in Softimage). So thanks, but no thanks, i will stick with Houdini. As side note, easy on that ‘white’ thing, you might end up thinking of yourself as a prophet.
User Avatar
Member
8652 posts
Joined: 7月 2007
Online
I see it as a very nice bridge for MAX users to learn a bit of procedural concepts and get all excited about the power it offers, then it will be easier for them to switch to Houdini
Tomas Slancik
FX Supervisor
Method Studios, NY
User Avatar
Member
99 posts
Joined: 7月 2007
Offline
tamte
I see it as a very nice bridge for MAX users to learn a bit of procedural concepts and get all excited about the power it offers, then it will be easier for them to switch to Houdini

+1
User Avatar
Member
1799 posts
Joined: 10月 2010
Offline
more than anything, I do not look forward to the “hey look! now max is just like Houdini!” comments from people who have never opened Houdini
-G
User Avatar
Member
678 posts
Joined: 7月 2005
Offline
grayOlorin
from people who have never opened Houdini

I've seen comments like this from people who opened Houdini more than couple times, soo…

It's funny that people thinks that just because something have nodes, that means it's like Houdini, while in Houdini nodes are just primary interface, and what makes Houdini a“Houdini” are those all other small things, like MMB on node to get info, interaction between all those contexts, expressions in all places etc. If I was interested only in nodes, Realflow would be more than enough for me.
User Avatar
Member
19 posts
Joined: 1月 2013
Offline
Wow! It looks so amazing! I'll install 3ds Max here on my Linux workstaion and… Oops… Wait a minute!! Ahahaha… I'm sorry, I couldn't resist to do this joke…
My Vimeo: https://vimeo.com/user5877906/videos [vimeo.com]
User Avatar
Member
1391 posts
Joined: 12月 2010
Offline
Of course this tool is great for Max users , But it doesn't change value of Houdini !

Because SideFx reach to this method for too many years ago , If Autodesk Programmers working on Max Creation Graph right now (after too many years) , So SideFx programmers working on another perfectly technology for now , (so Max programmers will work on this for too many years later !) .

Also I think we can compare this tool with only VEX :? , Houdini is node-base and procedural in all , (Compositing -Dynamic-Rendering-Modeling-Animation ,… ) , you have SOP , CHOP , DOP , POP , COP network too , not only VOP !

I think if Autodesk wanna make Max procedural in all , he have to rewrite Max from first step , he have to change all of the Max source codes and it's not simple !

however it's good news , because Competition is Require for Improvement

8)
https://www.youtube.com/c/sadjadrabiee [www.youtube.com]
Rabiee.Sadjad@Gmail.Com
User Avatar
Member
210 posts
Joined: 1月 2014
Offline
Besides ignoring the Autodesk hating I wanna point out one thing here: It seems that most/ maybe all comments here are related to TD stuff. But you forget that digital 3D is a bit more than that alone.
Fot quite a while now there is McNistors thread going about “Making Houdini a great modeler” and improving the userexperience. That's one of my main concerns about Houdini. Houdini might be a good TDs software but I still think it's an aweful modeler, where aweful means that I don't know any other 3D software that feels so cumbersome when it comes to modeling. For me as a modeler I always wanted to participate frome the advantages of nodebased/ procedural modeling, without creating too much disadvantages and as of now with the new Max 2016, Houdini seems to loose this competetion.
Maybe not everyone using Houdini explicitly wants to go that deep and have that much access to the data, but has to deal with because there was no real alternative. Ever thought of that?
User Avatar
Member
4189 posts
Joined: 6月 2012
Offline
Show us your work Korny and we can advise.

No one here knows if you do simple motion graphics working out of your parents garage or are an über-A grade artist. We all have helped you over the last year and yet there is a still a ‘you guys don’t know about these other tools that are so great', where-as we were probably using them were you were a toddler!

Usually people blame the tools instead of working with them.
User Avatar
Member
8652 posts
Joined: 7月 2007
Online
I don't understand the hype, MAX has already had ThinkBox Genome, which is the same thing if I'm not mistaken, framework for building custom modifiers
and XSI was for many years great traditional/procedural modeler so introducing MCG to MAX is nothing revolutionary, who wanted great overall modeling toolset would have already gone for XSI/ICE or MAX/Genome combo, so MCG changes nothing imho.
Tomas Slancik
FX Supervisor
Method Studios, NY
User Avatar
Member
638 posts
Joined: 6月 2006
Offline
well to make a grate modeler it requires quiet some work and that sesi is doing. we have seen updates in modeling and animation. there are still missing features that will simplifies the work for the artist but over all most function are build-in.

when you are a indie houdini is cheap and when you use it as backend or as a add-on you get a lot for you money.

btw: sesi has proven quiet some years that there release are good upgrades. autodesk has just proven that this version of max is a good release. the last ones where a bit thin….
User Avatar
Member
210 posts
Joined: 1月 2014
Offline
MartybNz
Show us your work Korny and we can advise.

No one here knows if you do simple motion graphics working out of your parents garage or are an über-A grade artist. We all have helped you over the last year and yet there is a still a ‘you guys don’t know about these other tools that are so great', where-as we were probably using them were you were a toddler!

Usually people blame the tools instead of working with them.


I should have known that this bullshit is going to come up again but I will explain it to you again. Just for you and very slow, so that you can follow:
It's not about me in particular.
It seems that you bid very high, since you über-A artists are using this stuff since I'm a toddler. Ok, I get it. You think you are so great and you know so much more about 3D stuff than I do, so answer me my counterquestion:
Why is it, that I havn't seen a detailed model, entirely modeled in Houdini, neither from you nor anybody else?
Why is it, that on Digital Tutors, at this very moment, there are just 4 modeling tutorials for Houdini but countless modeling tutorials for all the other 3D softwares.
Do a Google image search for “Houdini detailed model”.
Then do the same search for Maya, Max, Cinema 4D, Blender….
You wanna talk about über-A grade artists?
Let's take ILM for example, the founding fathers of VFX…..I mean only if you think that these guys are good enough for an über-A grade level….maybe you are much better than them….
What were the Dinosaurs in Jurassic Park modeled with?
What were Michael Bays Transformers modeled with?
Terminator, Iron Man, Avatar, etc….what was all that modeled with?
Houdini? Probably not. Maybe they get assembled in Houdini, but that's it. But that's certainly because all these artists are idiots, they just don't know about the great modeling tool kit in Houdini and would simply turn pale in your glory shine of 3D wisdom. Most likely you were doing much better stuff when these guys were still toddlers.
I say there is a reason why you don't find a detailed model, modeled in Houdini.
There is a reason why educational platforms like Digital Tutors offer so little modeling tutorials for Houdini.
There is a reason why experienced artists in big studios don't use Houdini for modeling.
The reason is, because no serious modeling artist wants to struggle with Houdinis so called “modeling toolkit”, for f@%& sake! Accept that!
God, this kind of ignorance and arrogance makes me angry.
This thread is over for me.
User Avatar
Member
678 posts
Joined: 7月 2005
Offline
Couple MCG videos => http://www.elarasystems.com/insights/case-studies/elara-labs/ [elarasystems.com]. It looks slow and it evaluates to f*cking Maxscript. Bleee…
  • Quick Links