Thank you for the recommendation. Many months ago I actually took that kind of approach. I basically just used the old fashioned bones method. I didn't have the time to do a rig with IK, so I just positioned the bones a key frame at a time and got something that is ok.
It is no where near as good as a real IK control system would give, but it got the job done.
I am keeping this thread alive in the hopes that I might get a solution eventually. I also hope to help SideFX get something that they can market to more game devs like me. auto rig would really help that. There are a ton of new Indie devs who are good coders, but not good asset creators. We are doing this as a hobby with no budget and so can't always hire or buy the assets.
If SideFX can get a tool that works end to end for people like me they open up a whole new market for themselves.
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Houdini Indie and Apprentice » Toon Character Torque Export Problem
- tpitman
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Houdini Indie and Apprentice » Toon Character Torque Export Problem
- tpitman
- 82 posts
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So is there an answer to my problem then? Can I get some guidance on where to go from here?
Houdini Indie and Apprentice » Toon Character Torque Export Problem
- tpitman
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Along with that here is another reason I am using poly reduce that maybe there is a better solution to:
My model has a texture on it with pants and shirt. When I do a poly reduction on it the texture gets messed up as the polygon count goes down. I would guess that is because the UV map doesn't match the polygons anymore.
What you see is the pants having spikes up into the shirt and the shirt spiking down into the pants as polygons that used to be some pants and some shirt end up spaning across that line.
So what I did was make a sub group that didn't include the polygons between the pants and shirt and applied the poly reduce to the rest of the polygons.
This works well, but if there is a way to solve the root problem of the texture mapping onto the new reduced polygons in the first place that would be better.
My model has a texture on it with pants and shirt. When I do a poly reduction on it the texture gets messed up as the polygon count goes down. I would guess that is because the UV map doesn't match the polygons anymore.
What you see is the pants having spikes up into the shirt and the shirt spiking down into the pants as polygons that used to be some pants and some shirt end up spaning across that line.
So what I did was make a sub group that didn't include the polygons between the pants and shirt and applied the poly reduce to the rest of the polygons.
This works well, but if there is a way to solve the root problem of the texture mapping onto the new reduced polygons in the first place that would be better.
Houdini Indie and Apprentice » Toon Character Torque Export Problem
- tpitman
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I saw that and thought about using it. I just tried it, however, and get an error. I have a single detail output just for this test. All I did was change the percent polys to .1 (it was 1).
Here is the output I get:
Adding node “Zombie_Auto_Rig_deform_rig/skin2” with parent “start01” to subtree rooted on node “base01”.
Attaching object to node.
Found multiRes data.
Adding object named “Zombie_Auto_Rig_deform_rig/skin”.
Adding mesh of size 2 to object “Zombie_Auto_Rig_deform_rig/skin” from multiRes of 0.100000.
Adding mesh of size 2 to object “Zombie_Auto_Rig_deform_rig/skin”.
Found two meshes named “Zombie_Auto_Rig_deform_rig/skin” of size 2.
This is an error, so it doesn't export.
Here is the output I get:
Adding node “Zombie_Auto_Rig_deform_rig/skin2” with parent “start01” to subtree rooted on node “base01”.
Attaching object to node.
Found multiRes data.
Adding object named “Zombie_Auto_Rig_deform_rig/skin”.
Adding mesh of size 2 to object “Zombie_Auto_Rig_deform_rig/skin” from multiRes of 0.100000.
Adding mesh of size 2 to object “Zombie_Auto_Rig_deform_rig/skin”.
Found two meshes named “Zombie_Auto_Rig_deform_rig/skin” of size 2.
This is an error, so it doesn't export.
Houdini Indie and Apprentice » Toon Character Torque Export Problem
- tpitman
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So THATS how that works. Sweet!
See this is the kind of basic Houdini knowledge that I am sorely lacking. I am trying to watch tutorials that teach this kind of stuff as much as possible. Most of the tutorials talk about many other things, however, that don't apply to what I am doing or they teach something like this in the middle of some other larger tutorial. In that case I don't have time to watch all of the tutorials to learn all the little details while seeing all kinds of other stuff that I don't need to know.
Now if we could figure out the animation export thing I might have everything I need.
See this is the kind of basic Houdini knowledge that I am sorely lacking. I am trying to watch tutorials that teach this kind of stuff as much as possible. Most of the tutorials talk about many other things, however, that don't apply to what I am doing or they teach something like this in the middle of some other larger tutorial. In that case I don't have time to watch all of the tutorials to learn all the little details while seeing all kinds of other stuff that I don't need to know.
Now if we could figure out the animation export thing I might have everything I need.
Houdini Indie and Apprentice » Toon Character Torque Export Problem
- tpitman
- 82 posts
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A related question:
The SKIN node inside of the Deform rig has the following parameters under material:
Material: `chsop(“../skin_material”)`
Rendering Properties: `chsop(“../skin_properties”)`
Can I safely just replace the Material with my own or is there a better way? Where does `chsop(“../skin_material”)` point to so I can just put my real material in there?
The SKIN node inside of the Deform rig has the following parameters under material:
Material: `chsop(“../skin_material”)`
Rendering Properties: `chsop(“../skin_properties”)`
Can I safely just replace the Material with my own or is there a better way? Where does `chsop(“../skin_material”)` point to so I can just put my real material in there?
Houdini Indie and Apprentice » Toon Character Torque Export Problem
- tpitman
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The problem with doing what you suggest is that the whole reason I created my own Object Merge SOPs in the first place was so that I could have multiple levels of poly reduces all pointing to the same deform output. If I have to copy the deform then any changes I make to one of them I have to make to all of them and when it comes to animation that would be hard to keep in sync.
I might try a different way of dealing with the poly reductions.
The bigger problem is the export of the animation sequence. As a test I decided to try pointing the Torque export at the SKIN right in the Deform rig. This gave the same results. I got the skin output, but no movement in the animation. In Houdini the animation works fine.
I think the Torque exporter needs a hierarchy of bones or nodes and when I point just to the SKIN they are not getting into the output.
Any suggestions?
I might try a different way of dealing with the poly reductions.
The bigger problem is the export of the animation sequence. As a test I decided to try pointing the Torque export at the SKIN right in the Deform rig. This gave the same results. I got the skin output, but no movement in the animation. In Houdini the animation works fine.
I think the Torque exporter needs a hierarchy of bones or nodes and when I point just to the SKIN they are not getting into the output.
Any suggestions?
Houdini Indie and Apprentice » Toon Character Torque Export Problem
- tpitman
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Just when I think I have it all working I run into another problem.
So I created the geo nodes with the Object Merges inside. That all works great. I was able to create all of the ones I needed with the stuff inside.
So I have 2 problems left:
1. I have my Object Merge Geos (mentioned above) pointing to the deform skin. In my object merge geos I have poly reduce nodes. I have some animations in the animation rigs. When I go from one frame to another the polygons change. What do I do about that?
2. When I export using the Torque out node the skin does export with the texture, but the animation does not export. I don't see the customary bones I expect either. What do I do about that?
So I created the geo nodes with the Object Merges inside. That all works great. I was able to create all of the ones I needed with the stuff inside.
So I have 2 problems left:
1. I have my Object Merge Geos (mentioned above) pointing to the deform skin. In my object merge geos I have poly reduce nodes. I have some animations in the animation rigs. When I go from one frame to another the polygons change. What do I do about that?
2. When I export using the Torque out node the skin does export with the texture, but the animation does not export. I don't see the customary bones I expect either. What do I do about that?
Houdini Indie and Apprentice » Toon Character Torque Export Problem
- tpitman
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Thank you.
I will try ti figure out how to do that. I hate being so new to Houdini. I feel like I am trying to do some pretty advanced stuff with very little knowledge and experience in Houdini and yet I need to in order to get this model done for my game.
I will try ti figure out how to do that. I hate being so new to Houdini. I feel like I am trying to do some pretty advanced stuff with very little knowledge and experience in Houdini and yet I need to in order to get this model done for my game.
Houdini Indie and Apprentice » Toon Character Torque Export Problem
- tpitman
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derrek: Great info. Thank you. Any thoughts on how I go about getting the output of the SKIN node and creating my own network nodes that output the same type of thing as the SKIN node that will be ready for the Torque exporter to export and retain the deforms of the SKIN?
Houdini Indie and Apprentice » Toon Character Torque Export Problem
- tpitman
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Thank you for the quick reply.
Your note about the SKIN node inside of the deform rig was the missing piece. I took out the details initialization that the “Initialize Details From Geometry” created and put in a single entry that points to the deform SKIN node and it works!
Now I have a new question that is more generic about Houdini and I am sure you can answer.
How do I create a new network that takes the SKIN node as input and then lets me do things like poly reduce and material application and outputs the type of output that the SKIN node outputs so I can point to it?
I want to do this so I can have multiple output version that have all of the deforms and skin stuff as input.
Your note about the SKIN node inside of the deform rig was the missing piece. I took out the details initialization that the “Initialize Details From Geometry” created and put in a single entry that points to the deform SKIN node and it works!
Now I have a new question that is more generic about Houdini and I am sure you can answer.
How do I create a new network that takes the SKIN node as input and then lets me do things like poly reduce and material application and outputs the type of output that the SKIN node outputs so I can point to it?
I want to do this so I can have multiple output version that have all of the deforms and skin stuff as input.
Houdini Indie and Apprentice » Toon Character Torque Export Problem
- tpitman
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I was thinking about this over night and thought I might clarify what I need to know.
I followed the quadraped tutorial. It has you start with a skin and add the auto-rig. He uses the quad, but I used the biped. That shouldn't matter and doesn't seem to.
My posting from here on assumes you have watched the tutorial so that I don't have to give all the details in order to ask my questions.
He then has you set up some things in the auto rig that gets created including setting a path for a proxy file.
Then he has you hit the create/modify/match rig. This creates a animation rig and a deform rig. I then have to set up some things on the animation rig including some properties that don't get automatically created. After setting up all the stuff in the animation rig he has me create a duplicate of the animation rig.
Then you dive into the deform rig. I set the bgeo file created above into this rig as well, create some key frames and then do a bunch of weighting using weight painting. There are several nodes inside the deform rig that I don't understand. After doing a bunch of work in the deform rig you go back up to the top.
At this point you can assign either the animation rig or the duplicate to the deform rig and move them around and it moves your skin.
So here are the things I would like to better understand:
1. What are the auto rig, animation rig and deform rigs exactly.
2. Inside the animation rig there are nodes like this:
/obj/Zombie/Zombie_Auto_Rig_animation_rig1/spine/proxy_lower_back1
They don't seem to actually point to anything and yet they are what the Torque output renderer pointed to when I told it to Initialize Details From Scene. What are they and where are they pointing?
3. If the nodes in question 2 above point to a single geometry somewhere can I work on it for material assignement and such?
4. How does the animation rig associate with the deform rig and my original skin?
5. Inside the animation rig is a SOURCE_GEOMETRY. What is that?
6. Inside the deform rig is a skin node. Inside there are several branches and a couple places where you output files and others where you input files. I know these are used for “baking” along the way, but how does that affect my original skin and its material and other things I have applied to it?
I would really just like to totally understand what all is going on and where everything is pointing so I can better work with this and get what I want out of it.
I followed the quadraped tutorial. It has you start with a skin and add the auto-rig. He uses the quad, but I used the biped. That shouldn't matter and doesn't seem to.
My posting from here on assumes you have watched the tutorial so that I don't have to give all the details in order to ask my questions.
He then has you set up some things in the auto rig that gets created including setting a path for a proxy file.
Then he has you hit the create/modify/match rig. This creates a animation rig and a deform rig. I then have to set up some things on the animation rig including some properties that don't get automatically created. After setting up all the stuff in the animation rig he has me create a duplicate of the animation rig.
Then you dive into the deform rig. I set the bgeo file created above into this rig as well, create some key frames and then do a bunch of weighting using weight painting. There are several nodes inside the deform rig that I don't understand. After doing a bunch of work in the deform rig you go back up to the top.
At this point you can assign either the animation rig or the duplicate to the deform rig and move them around and it moves your skin.
So here are the things I would like to better understand:
1. What are the auto rig, animation rig and deform rigs exactly.
2. Inside the animation rig there are nodes like this:
/obj/Zombie/Zombie_Auto_Rig_animation_rig1/spine/proxy_lower_back1
They don't seem to actually point to anything and yet they are what the Torque output renderer pointed to when I told it to Initialize Details From Scene. What are they and where are they pointing?
3. If the nodes in question 2 above point to a single geometry somewhere can I work on it for material assignement and such?
4. How does the animation rig associate with the deform rig and my original skin?
5. Inside the animation rig is a SOURCE_GEOMETRY. What is that?
6. Inside the deform rig is a skin node. Inside there are several branches and a couple places where you output files and others where you input files. I know these are used for “baking” along the way, but how does that affect my original skin and its material and other things I have applied to it?
I would really just like to totally understand what all is going on and where everything is pointing so I can better work with this and get what I want out of it.
Houdini Indie and Apprentice » Toon Character Torque Export Problem
- tpitman
- 82 posts
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So now I have a model done with auto rig that exports the geometry that I have animated.
Since I am so new to Houdini I need some help understanding some things.
When I made my own model and used simple bones I applied my material by having a single PNG image that matched the entire model's UV. It had a single UV map for the whole model.
So now I am using the auto rig stuff. When I told the Torque exporter to “Initialize Detail from Scene” it created several Linked geometry entries. As I look at these linked geo entries I notice that they have paths like:
/obj/Zombie/Zombie_Auto_Rig_animation_rig1/spine/proxy_lower_back2
As I look at each of those I can see that they are all over the place. This causes me a problem because I need to do things like apply polygon reduce SOPs and also apply my single PNG image to the whole geometry.
How am I going to do this? Can someone explain to me what these proxy geometries are actually pointing to? Do they all point to a single geometry somewhere?
I followed the Quadraped tutorial in setting up this model so it involved several places where I had to write out a .bgeo file and then set another node in the chain equal to that .bgeo file.
Can someone spend some time and help me understand the whole thing please?
Since I am so new to Houdini I need some help understanding some things.
When I made my own model and used simple bones I applied my material by having a single PNG image that matched the entire model's UV. It had a single UV map for the whole model.
So now I am using the auto rig stuff. When I told the Torque exporter to “Initialize Detail from Scene” it created several Linked geometry entries. As I look at these linked geo entries I notice that they have paths like:
/obj/Zombie/Zombie_Auto_Rig_animation_rig1/spine/proxy_lower_back2
As I look at each of those I can see that they are all over the place. This causes me a problem because I need to do things like apply polygon reduce SOPs and also apply my single PNG image to the whole geometry.
How am I going to do this? Can someone explain to me what these proxy geometries are actually pointing to? Do they all point to a single geometry somewhere?
I followed the Quadraped tutorial in setting up this model so it involved several places where I had to write out a .bgeo file and then set another node in the chain equal to that .bgeo file.
Can someone spend some time and help me understand the whole thing please?
Houdini Indie and Apprentice » Toon Character Torque Export Problem
- tpitman
- 82 posts
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Houdini Indie and Apprentice » Toon Character Torque Export Problem
- tpitman
- 82 posts
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I am creating the detail sections in the torque exporter. I have a different model that I have created that does NOT use the auto rigging stuff and it works fine, so I must know how to do that properly.
Do you have Houdini? If so can you open the sample file I uploaded and see if you can figure out what I have done wrong?
The only geometry I can find is what is inside of the auto rig.
All I did was create a new project and put the Toon Character on it and tried to get it to export to Torque. This is a test as once I get it to work I will have to auto rig my own model, but I wanted to start with something that anyone with Houdini could duplicate until we get it working.
Do you have Houdini? If so can you open the sample file I uploaded and see if you can figure out what I have done wrong?
The only geometry I can find is what is inside of the auto rig.
All I did was create a new project and put the Toon Character on it and tried to get it to export to Torque. This is a test as once I get it to work I will have to auto rig my own model, but I wanted to start with something that anyone with Houdini could duplicate until we get it working.
Houdini Indie and Apprentice » Toon Character Torque Export Problem
- tpitman
- 82 posts
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I forgot to mention that I am using the 583 version now. I got it from the daily builds section.
Houdini Indie and Apprentice » Toon Character Torque Export Problem
- tpitman
- 82 posts
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Well, I would like to know how you tested this fix. I must still be doing something wrong. I get nothing when I export to Torque.
I have uploaded my hip file. Please let me know what I am doing wrong. It is probably that I am pointing to the wrong geometry, but I can't figure out any other geo to point to.
All I did really was create a new project, import the toon character, make the deform rig allow edits and other nodes inside it allow edits. I then added Divide nodes because Torque output requires triangles only.
I then added the Torque output node and set up the fields in it. The one thing I noticed was that the auto bounds it creates is way too tall. I manually created a bounds object and the works.
I then Render the Torque node. I get a valid DTS file, but it has no bones or geometry in it.
I am using ShowTool Pro to view the DTS file.
I have uploaded my hip file. Please let me know what I am doing wrong. It is probably that I am pointing to the wrong geometry, but I can't figure out any other geo to point to.
All I did really was create a new project, import the toon character, make the deform rig allow edits and other nodes inside it allow edits. I then added Divide nodes because Torque output requires triangles only.
I then added the Torque output node and set up the fields in it. The one thing I noticed was that the auto bounds it creates is way too tall. I manually created a bounds object and the works.
I then Render the Torque node. I get a valid DTS file, but it has no bones or geometry in it.
I am using ShowTool Pro to view the DTS file.
Houdini Indie and Apprentice » Toon Character Torque Export Problem
- tpitman
- 82 posts
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Houdini Indie and Apprentice » Toon Character Torque Export Problem
- tpitman
- 82 posts
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Heh, I feel a little stupid. You say that right in the posting. Sorry. I will get it as soon as it shows and let you know.
Houdini Indie and Apprentice » Toon Character Torque Export Problem
- tpitman
- 82 posts
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Ok, I have the latest version and am still having trouble getting something to output to Torque. I do not get any errors anymore, so that is good.
I created a brand new Toon Character using the 554.
The problem is that I don't get anything output.
I need someone to give me the final word on what I have to export. I found the geometry that is not triangles inside here:
toon_character1/toon_character_deform_rig/head_and_neck/left_eye
toon_character1/toon_character_deform_rig/head_and_neck/right_eye
toon_character1/toon_character_deform_rig/skin
I added Divide SOPs in those 3 locations. The on-screen model now is triangles, so it should export.
I believe my problem at this point is just not knowing what to export or the Torque SOP not knowing what to export.
Please help…
I created a brand new Toon Character using the 554.
The problem is that I don't get anything output.
I need someone to give me the final word on what I have to export. I found the geometry that is not triangles inside here:
toon_character1/toon_character_deform_rig/head_and_neck/left_eye
toon_character1/toon_character_deform_rig/head_and_neck/right_eye
toon_character1/toon_character_deform_rig/skin
I added Divide SOPs in those 3 locations. The on-screen model now is triangles, so it should export.
I believe my problem at this point is just not knowing what to export or the Torque SOP not knowing what to export.
Please help…
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