Hi everyone,


TL;DR: How is Houdini for traditional modeling/rigging/animation along the lines of Maya/Blender, or is it only worth using for dynamics/procedural modeling?


A bit of background: I've been teaching myself 3D modeling and VFX workflows for the last 6 months, primarily using Digital Tutors and a small amount of Lynda early on. Over that time, I've mostly used zBrush, Maya, and Blender, with Fusion and After Effects for compositing, etc.
I recently started learning Houdini, partly because its dynamics are incredible, and the price tag for Indie is too good to pass up. My end goal is to start a small VFX/3D studio for film within the next 12 months.

My question relates specifically to modelling in Houdini, and rigging/animating characters. I've got a basic understanding of these processes in Houdini, but there isn't a huge wealth of information on traditional modeling like Maya has.

Is it possible/worth learning to model characters and other assets in Houdini, or would be better to model in Blender/Maya and import geometry across? Why/why not? And when using characters, how well do Houdini's rigging and animation tools hold up, or would it be better to do these things elsewhere and use Houdini solely for dynamics?

In my own learning (and forgive me if it's lacking, I'm still learning the Houdini workflow), Houdini is node-based for modeling as for everything else, but doesn't appear to have the same sort of clean up that Maya has (delete by history and such), which leaves me concerned that while it has the tools, it may lead to exceedingly cluttered networks within models. That said, it's strength is creating procedural models, so it seems like the no-brain solution for organic terrains and such, if you're technically minded.
That said, I've also seen that there's going to be some interesting new tools in Houdini 15 that may address my concerns, but that is yet to be seen.

Any input would be appreciated; I'm loving Houdini so far and it seems incredibly powerful, and I'm very curious what it's capable of. I can see pros and cons both ways, but would love to hear from more experienced users.

TL;WR:
modeling -
rigging +
animation ~

Modeling and animation are currently addressed and is WIP to be continued in future versions. They're usable as they currently are, just not as good as you'd find in other 3d apps.
Traditional box modeling is among the worst, but big steps have been taken in the right direction and it's starting to look better and better.
As you'd expect procedural modeling is very strong.
Rigging is the most powerful among all 3d apps I think. I mean it's better than Maya's and Softimage and if that's the case I don't know what else is left.

One is able to delete history in Houdini, it's just that it's rather hidden feature.
I'll be honest - Maya's far from the best as far as modeling goes.
Recently they improved it (thanks to Softimage devs I'm guessing), but not very long ago, I would have rather shot kittens than deal with Maya's buggy bevel and selection tools.

McNistor
Modeling and animation are currently addressed and is WIP to be continued in future versions. They're usable as they currently are, just not as good as you'd find in other 3d apps.
Traditional box modeling is among the worst, but big steps have been taken in the right direction and it's starting to look better and better.

I noticed that in the sneak peak at 15, definitely some improvements there from the look of things, which is why I'm seriously considering just moving to Houdini completely since that's not far off. It looks like it addresses both of those areas.

McNistor
Rigging is the most powerful among all 3d apps I think. I mean it's better than Maya's and Softimage and if that's the case I don't know what else is left.

I hope I'm not being too green here, but could you elaborate on this? I haven't dug into rigging much until the last few days. So far my experience is that it's quite possible but things like bone orientation are a little harder to tweak than other apps unless you can make everything perfectly from one of the ortho views, which isn't always an option. However I'm looking forward to discovering how the procedural mindset applies to rigging. Might be worth the switch.

McNistor
One is able to delete history in Houdini, it's just that it's rather hidden feature.

Where could I find that? The closest alternative I've come up with would be just exporting and re-importing the geometry.

McNistor
I'll be honest - Maya's far from the best as far as modeling goes.

I won't disagree. I prefer Blender for modeling for the most part, with the exception of retopo…. specifically because of quad draw. Again, 15 looks like it addresses retopology anyway though, so that's exciting.

Thank you for taking your time to help out, I appreciate it.

One important thing I think I forgot to mention is that I'm no Houdini expert - I've been flirting with it for the past year, but I'm still in the process of transitioning from Softimage to Houdini.

The process is hard mainly due to time constraints and I think I'm touching everyone around here when it comes to time.
The 2nd reason (in order of importance) is that Houdini sucks at traditional poly-modeling, a thing which I use a lot. It makes it hard for me to quit using XSI, buy a Houdini license and use it for only half (at most) of what I need.

For delete history - RMB in the viewport > geometry > delete history. A far from optimal workflow, especially when compared to Softimage where one has to only press a button (Freeze or FreezeM)
As a side note, having a big amount of modeling nodes doesn't seem to slow down Houdini, but then again I never modeled a complex model in H where a huge amount of nodes would pile up.
If I were to be a bit mean, I don't think anyone has ever done that in H.

Regarding rigging - if you're coming from Maya, keep in mind that Houdini, like Softimage, is a bone rotation based program, not position like Maya.
Not sure if this is related to your difficulty or not.

I hope my experience as another novice Houdini user, yet a little more in touch with it than you are is worth something to you.
Anyway, I'm sure you'll get some feedback from the real veterans soon enough.

My $0.02 is that Houdini is worth it as it is, especially if you're more oriented towards effects and TA/TD stuff.

p.s. Mantra, albeit not your monument of artistic friendliness, is amazing.

H no FBIK

I haven't used FBIK before, but I can see why that would be nice. Hopefully something for future versions, although not by any stretch a dealbreaker for me at this point.

That's interesting, the geometry thing. You're probably right. I mean, with Blender, I have no issue doing most of the modeling elsewhere anyway, but it would be nice to be able to work in one app where possible.

The rigging is a little confusing, but I think with a bit of time and patience I can get my head around it. The concept of it from what I've encountered so far makes sense for me, it's just learning how to implement proper capturing of geometry and bone orientation so I have axes where I want them is the bit I'm stumbling on. Although, I made a lot of progress yesterday since posting this, so I think I see the strengths of it, and things like the Autorig are handy.

Mantra looks incredible. Obviously, once again for the more technically oriented but the results seem fantastic. Well worth learning for the price tag.

Thank you! I think I have a firmer idea of what I can and can't do within Houdini now. I think I'm going to stick to it, and maybe combine it with Blender to get the most out of it. It's too good to pass up.

aty84122
H no FBIK

What is your RFE number for this? Others too can ask for this, and, and relate it to this number. Thanks!

I just wanted to add since lighting and look development is my area of expertise, Houdini and Mantra are my favorite look development and rendering tools. In day work I use Katana and Renderman and I think Houdini is just amazing for individual artist in this department.

Can not agree more with tinyparticle!

tinyparticle
I just wanted to add since lighting and look development is my area of expertise, Houdini and Mantra are my favorite look development and rendering tools. In day work I use Katana and Renderman and I think Houdini is just amazing for individual artist in this department.

But only then….