project "Houdini, a great modeler"

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pezetko
For those that miss Temporal Pivot (under “alt” key) from XSI:

There is something similar under ‘ key. Hit it once (the solid shaded Gizmo handles became wireframe) then you can offset and rotate pivot as you wish. Than hit the ’ key again to get back solid shaded look of transform gizmo. Then you can transform your geometry around this temporal pivot without changing actual pivot.

So only thing to make it work as fast and user friendly as in XSI is to be able to map it to sticky (transient) key. And I think and hope that this transient key functionality comes soon.

Indeed. Thanks for the info.
https://www.artstation.com/artist/mcnistor [www.artstation.com]
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It will be nice to have the softimage selection behaviour in houdini.
Edited by - March 9, 2014 14:24:00

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Looks good Katana - it would also be good to create a new topic for the scripting or would you consider it to be modelling?
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katana13
It will be nice to have the softimage selection behaviour in houdini.
It will be nice to have the softimage script editor behaviour in houdini. Scripting will be simpler for casual programmer.

Make sure you read the webpage I created especially for modeling and interaction related stuff. Thanks.
https://www.artstation.com/artist/mcnistor [www.artstation.com]
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System of component selection in softimage. I will finish it later!!!
Edited by - March 10, 2014 02:33:52

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Thanks Katana- can you also write out how those steps work compared to Houdini? There is quite a bit of unfamiliar info there for us Houdinites to compare to.

Thanks!
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katana13
System of component selection in softimage. I will finish it later!!!

I don't think offering a Softimage tutorial would help.
tbh I don't understand what you're doing/explaining in there - 9 transformation options?).

If you don't put things in light of Houdini's current tools, you're just wasting your time.
For example why do you show these people (Houdini users) “Global” mode? There is already an equivalent mode in Houdini called “world”.
If you're spitting out raw info without pre digesting it with a bit of Houdini saliva for Houdini users you're just going to get ignored by most.

And again, please make sure you have read my page http://mcnistor.com/h_improve.html [mcnistor.com] in order to avoid repetition.
Edited by - March 10, 2014 03:09:28
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katana13
System of component selection in softimage. I will finish it later!!!

I don't think offering a Softimage tutorial would help.
tbh I don't understand what you're doing/explaining in there - 9 transformation options?).

If you don't put things in light of Houdini's current tools, you're just wasting your time.
For example why do you show these people (Houdini users) “Global” mode? There is already an equivalent mode in Houdini called “world”.
If you're spitting out raw info without pre digesting it with a bit of Houdini saliva for Houdini users you're just going to get ignored by most.

And again, please make sure you have read my page http://mcnistor.com/h_improve.html [mcnistor.com] in order to avoid repetition.

Effectively, I could delete the global part. With your technic, less work. I will update, tomorrow night.
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MartybNz
Thanks Katana- can you also write out how those steps work compared to Houdini? There is quite a bit of unfamiliar info there for us Houdinites to compare to.

Thanks!

I'm not sure to understand your question, but it seems I was not clear.

For example, in houdini:

1.drop a box and select “polygon Mesh”

2. in the object parameter interface, put rz = 45 , select the box (S)

3. press 4

4. all primitives are selected.(Softimage nothing : Ok it's not very important)

5.select 1 primitive on the top of the cube.

6.Press “T”

8. Houdini drops a “edit sop”. First difference with softimage : no move, no scale, no rotation = no operator

7.The selection disappears (not fun). Now, it's the same as softimage object transform.

8. The houdini pivot parameter (edit sop) has the same value as translation value in softimage. Maybe, it's not important, I don't know.

9.RMB on the handle -> “align handle” : No option for local transformation. Second difference, in softimage, we will have had a local option to align the y axis of houdini gizmo with the normal of the primitive. But “edit sop” has now a “edit local space” parameter, but it does nothing with primitive selection.


10.RMB on the handle -> “align handle” -> “world”. Ok, it's like softimage.

11.RMB on the handle -> “align handle” -> “object”. Ok, it's like softimage

Third difference, when you select 1 primitive, then press 2, press 4, press 2,… The selection grows. In softimage, point, edge and primitive selection are independent. If you want grows something or convert a selection, you need to do it explicitly.

The modeling part of houdini is a little obscure for me to do a good comparison. So, I wanted to show what Softimage can do. But, like McNistor says, maybe I should delete the world and object part.
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Thanks Katana -

I'm not sure I'm following why you want to show us the modelling part of SI without showing why it works better than what we have in Houdini. The only part I picked up was that the selection changes when you go from Primitive, to Points and back again. That is a good point that I hope is added to the main page.

The first rotation at 45 degrees was done on the geo container which is separate to the component editing at the Geometry level.

Try the Transform node to do what you just did at it will almost do everything you want to do.

Also check out Jordi's excellent Softimage to Houdini transition guide.
http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_forum&Itemid=172&page=viewtopic&t=31012 [sidefx.com]

Hope that helps.
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Section 1.02 Hierarchical selection On the page: http://mcnistor.com/h_improve.html [mcnistor.com]

1 & 2. Is this the same as now using Select Input/ Output under the RMB?
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MartybNz
The only part I picked up was that the selection changes when you go from Primitive, to Points and back again. That is a good point that I hope is added to the main page.

“selection memory” has been on the page I've created for a while now which goes to show katana13 didn't honor my request of reading there before making improvements suggestions. It begs the question how many are really reading that page before posting on this thread.

MartybNz
Section 1.02 Hierarchical selection On the page: http://mcnistor.com/h_improve.html [mcnistor.com]

1 & 2. Is this the same as now using Select Input/ Output under the RMB?

Ah, yes it is. At least on the surface. Also a quick way to do this in viewport via shortcut would be very useful. Is it currently possible to do it?
Edited by - March 10, 2014 03:32:51
https://www.artstation.com/artist/mcnistor [www.artstation.com]
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I'm sad to see Softimage go and I feel for the user base, but I'm glad to see some of them here and contributing an outside perspective. So thank you SI users and thank you SESI for stickying this thread and participating.

I like most of the suggestions on McNistor's page.
I have a few RFEs of my own that I plan to submit, in no particular order:

Separate orientation picking for geometry and handles. During a given modeling session I will probably re-align the transform gizmo dozens of times, but I can't actually remember having ever used orientation picking to directly re-align a geometry selection. It seems like a lot of time could be saved by skipping the step of first detaching the handle, then re-attaching it after orientation picking. So I propose the current method be broken down into two separate actions, one that affects only the handle and one that directly transforms the selection.

Allow the standard add/subtract/replace selection options during orientation picking. Right now, if you select the wrong edge during picking you basically have to start over again; hit Esc, gizmo disappears, hit Enter for it to reappear, begin again. Unnecessary keyboard travel.

Component highlighting. It sounds like this may be in the works already but just in case. Much like object highlighting, but for primitives, points, vertices and edges at the SOP level.

Edge-loop selection improvements. I think the improvements that McNistor proposed are really good and I could certainly live with that. Here is an alternative setup:
Select edge loop: Double-click LMB on edge.
Select partial edge loop: Single-click LMB on starting edge, double-click LMB on ending edge.
Select edge ring: Double-click MMB on edge.
Select partial edge ring: Single-click MMB on starting edge, double-click MMB on ending edge.
Select primitive loop: Single-click LMB first polygon, double-click LMB adjacent polygon in the orientation you want the loop to go.
Select partial primitive loop: Single-click LMB on starting polygon, double-click LMB on ending polygon.
Select point loop: Same as primitive loop.
Select partial point loop: Same as primitive loop.
Unselect loops: Same as the above but with Ctrl as the modifier.

Automatic local handles for primitives, points and edges. Exactly as shown in katana's second gif. I would be fantastic to have in Houdini and would probably save people from having to do as much orientation picking.

Hold option in addition to Toggle for things like detaching handles and snapping. Another thing that Maya does right as far as modeling IMO. This may be a personal preference, but I found that holding the keyboard shortcuts for detaching the handle and snapping (often used in conjunction) made for a more fluid experience.

Make Reselect for Current Tool more robust. Quite often I find myself having to hit Escape then Enter to make it work. I think you can reproduce it like this:
Default Geometry Display set to Show Display Operator (like a sane person )
Say you have a polygon torus, PolyExtrude a face. Invoke an Edit SOP by selecting a face and hitting t (translate), r (rotate) or e (scale). Set your display flag back to the PolyExtrude and hit ` to re-select your extrusion face. Nothing happens.

A bridge tool. Pretty important as far as polygon tools go. Maya has a solid implementation.

Improved PolyBevel. This one will be its own post. I have some ideas on how it could be made more spiffy.


In case anyone finds this useful, here is how I've set up my shortcuts.
V - Point Snapping (broken in current H13 builds??)
C - Detach Handle
X - Begin Orientation Picking
Z - Toggle Global/Local handle for PolyExtrude

I have my most used modeling operations bound to mouse buttons:
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Thanks DaJuice for your suggestions. When I'll get to “real” modeling tools I'll make sure to read your future suggestions and add them to my page.

As for the things at Edge-loop selection improvements, all I can say that Softiamge got its double-click selection loops after XSI has been acquired by Adsk in order to accommodate Maya users. Needless to say, it's slower than the method proposed on my page, but it's still better than the current Houdini approach, therefore I could live with that as well.
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MartybNz

Please help me out here a bit regarding these tree selections. The Houdini help doesn't give me enough info on this.
Let's split the problem in a few points for a better view on the things:
1- does “select input/output” allow you to set keys on parents and their children in the hierarchy with single shortcut/hotkey
2 - is it possible to make this type of selection in viewport (w/o going into the network view).

Related to this would be a feature “isolate selection” in viewport which from my understanding (help and google search) is lacking in Houdini. I'll add this feature to my page if it turns out I'm right.
Edited by - March 10, 2014 04:29:53
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Double click method are not that userfriendly with tablet as input device. I prefer the loop selection with ALT key as it's now in XSI, it's faster and works with tablet without problem.

Pie menus (marking menus) that are context sensitive like in Maya are huge timesaver also. I really like them. It takes a little time to learn them and the speed boost is incredible. And they work great with tablet or mouse.
E.g. I could switch coordinate space for objects (local/global etc) much faster in Maya then I'm able in XSI.

Quadmenus from 3dsmax or popup menus/right click menus are nowhere near the speed of using marking menus.
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pezetko
Pie menus (marking menus) that are context sensitive like in Maya are huge timesaver also. I really like them.

They like them too, so they have patented them long time ago as I believe.
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MartybNz
The only part I picked up was that the selection changes when you go from Primitive, to Points and back again. That is a good point that I hope is added to the main page.

“selection memory” has been on the page I've created for a while now which goes to show katana13 didn't honor my request of reading there before making improvements suggestions. It begs the question how many are really reading that page before posting on this thread.

MartybNz
Section 1.02 Hierarchical selection On the page: http://mcnistor.com/h_improve.html [mcnistor.com]

1 & 2. Is this the same as now using Select Input/ Output under the RMB?


Ah, yes it is. At least on the surface. Also a quick way to do this in viewport via shortcut would be very useful. Is it currently possible to do it?

Hi,
McNistor or MartybNz, to avoid duplication, could you introduce curves' management and its manipulators in Softimage? For example, for the moment, it is impossible to “break” the curve in houdini.
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There si ghosting. With that you can isolate current object from the ones that are outside. Default shortcut is Space+Y (or just Y if you are in View Tool)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSfd-1JmCqM [youtube.com]

For something more like XSI isolate selection tool:
http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_forum&Itemid=172&page=viewtopic&t=29072 [sidefx.com]

This is what you probably want:
http://pastebin.com/YiCC0kSB [pastebin.com]
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pezetko
Pie menus (marking menus) that are context sensitive like in Maya are huge timesaver also. I really like them.

They like them too, so they have patented them long time ago as I believe.

Sight, seems that they weren't only one http://www.google.com/patents/US20070168890 [google.com]
http://www.autodeskresearch.com/people/gord [autodeskresearch.com]


katana13
it is impossible to “break” the curve in houdini.
Could you be more clear? You can untie tangents both for animation curves as well as 3d curve object.
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