Disable Clic translate

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Hi, how can I disable the “click translate” mode on Objs, it's kind of anoying when you juste want to select something in the viewport and you end up with a slightly translated obj.

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A rather similar thing happens with points when having the translate tool active. I've made my case why that's a bad idea, but obviously I haven't been convincing enough.
Both these problems would however disappear probably if transient keys would be implemented - one can just hold ‘S’ down while performing the selection and release it when done.
Currently we're out of luck.
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NNois
Hi, how can I disable the “click translate” mode on Objs, it's kind of anoying when you juste want to select something in the viewport and you end up with a slightly translated obj.

Cheers

Look up “secure selection” in the Houdini docs, and turn it on by default.

The introduction of transient keys for selection in an upcoming release will hopefully eliminate this problem altogether.

Cristin
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Hi, I'm 100% agree about this not convinced default behavior and hopefully yes, “secure selection” is a good mode.
But we need more !
For example, with “secure selection” mode, It would be really really accommodating and more productive to allow us to translate an object without need to select the manipulator.
If I need to place a far away selected object(s) to a specific place (with a simple snap clic on another object for example) (cf. “manipulate.jpg”).

All the best

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If you referring to “click outside gizmo > simple transform” from Softimage, you should do create a gif to show how that works and file a RFE with it.
I personally think “secure selection” is a crutch - once you fix the leg you no longer need the crutch.
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julca
Hi, I'm 100% agree about this not convinced default behavior and hopefully yes, “secure selection” is a good mode.
But we need more !
For example, with “secure selection” mode, It would be really really accommodating and more productive to allow us to translate an object without need to select the manipulator.
If I need to place a far away selected object(s) to a specific place (with a simple snap clic on another object for example) (cf. “manipulate.jpg”).

All the best

Thank you for that RFE.

In the meantime, it might help to use the middle mouse button to translate the selected geometry without having to place the cursor on the selection or on the transform handle. This functionality is already in Houdini 16.

Cristin
Edited by cb - July 20, 2017 11:49:37
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Here you can find a gif that show how it works (and how it's efficient !) on softimage.
I will make an RFE with this if it's clear enough, otherwise I will make a video (tell me).

Cheers
Edited by julca - July 20, 2017 13:30:45

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IMO this ‘mode’ should be a toggle somewhere in the prefs because if implemented, along with transient keys, I will use this ‘mode’ as default.
Therefore I think it should be independent of “secure selection”. Or if for some reason you think it should be a characteristic of “secure selection” then it should have a toggle entry in the prefs. I looked around the prefs. and didn't find “secure selection” toggle. Does it have one?
Also, right now when the “secure selection” is ON, there's a weird behavior when selecting Objs via Netview or Treeview (selection shown in the viewport and handle placement are conflicting). Is this intended behavior? If it is, it's one reason to have “click outside gizmo > simple transform” feature be independent of “secure selection”.
Edited by McNistor - July 21, 2017 03:19:11
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…if implemented, along with transient keys, I will use this ‘mode’ as default.

If implemented along with transient keys I will use also this mode by far (and as default will just be logic) !
I hope sidefx team understand that this is not to just feel confortable as we come from softimage and this will be same behavior, but because it's a (the most I've seen over other app for now) far more efficient and productive way to manipulate objects in 3d viewport (and the houdini middle click, just to list one, is a plus of course) !

I can understand if it's not necessarily obvious for sidefx team to realise and we probably need to make more videos to explain how it works and what artist's productivity impact is.

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Seriously, softimage selection and snapping was just perfect. This becomes obvious only after a day or two with it (mentored by a good old game modeler).
Houdini have some bribes of it but only a little
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Seriously, softimage selection and snapping was just perfect. This becomes obvious only after a day or two with it (mentored by a good old game modeler).
Houdini have some bribes of it but only a little

Thank you, gentlemen. RFE noted and forum link saved

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- I find the gizmo really easy to miss, one needs to be able to increase the radius. I get it's small for people that like to have moving and selecting in the same go, but for people like us that like to have those separately could be improved.
- I miss transforming things in screen space when I click outside the gizmo.
- I miss having the gizmo show up in the edge of the viewport even if the object is outside of the viewport.
- I miss sticky keys where I might be in a manipulator but want quickly change to something else, so I just press hold select what I want and I'm back into the move tool.
- I miss a visible panel telling me in which axis alignment mode I'm on, which I can quickly click to change.
- I miss a transforms panel that is used for both object and component mode. Being able to type in 3+ and have offset each object/component by 3 using the selected alignment mode I've selected. In Object mode it allows to do L(-1,1), R(-1,1) and have a linear or random distribution of the objects and in component mode it allows me to inspect and set the positions of the components using the selected alignment mode.
- I miss a snapping system that is there for you just by holding a key temporarily and then go by to unsnapped editing by releasing it. And it also working with temporary pivot.
- I miss being able to hold a key to quickly setup a pivot another to snap it and go about what I wanted to do by releasing it.
- I miss the Reset Translation command that it would put the object back in rest position or it would center components.

Edited by probiner - July 22, 2017 14:00:13
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probiner
- I find the gizmo really easy to miss, one needs to be able to increase the radius. I get it's small for people that like to have moving and selecting in the same go, but for people like us that like to have those separately could be improved.

Are you referring to the size? Because there's an option prefs>handles>handle scale.
Or to the distance to the mouse cursor in order to activate the gizmo? I personally don't find an issue with this, but if this is the case for you, until an “activation distance” option is implemented, you may try use the settings I'm using (attached). It's the closest to Softimage's and it's much better than the current default.

probiner
- I miss transforming things in screen space when I click outside the gizmo.

This is one thing we've discussed in this thread (“click outside gizmo > simple transform”). Hopefully it will be implemented soon.
I would add here “an option to disable transform axis (RMB on it in the pannel in XSI)” unless there's one already, hidden somewhere. This feature would result in much more control over how you transform your Object when clicking outside the gizmo (for this last bit I've attached a gif, just in case julca's recording doesn't convey very well what I'm referring to).


probiner
- I miss having the gizmo show up in the edge of the viewport even if the object is outside of the viewport.

Tried this a few times in XSI but found it impractical. If it was very important for your workflow, file a RFE for it.

probiner
- I miss sticky keys where I might be in a manipulator but want quickly change to something else, so I just press hold select what I want and I'm back into the move tool.

As some devs. already said, “sticky/transient keys” will see the light in a future version.

probiner
- I miss a visible panel telling me in which axis alignment mode I'm on, which I can quickly click to change.

Yep. And more painful than not seeing the mode you're in (I'd argue most of the time, you will figure it out) is the way you currently switch between different spaces, i.e cycle through them with ‘M’ key or chase them through the RMB menu. I've already file a RFE for having them exposed directly under RMB (and clean up that menu, leave only the current tool relevant things), but I'm no longer sure what I've filed or not, so make sure you file RFEs for all these you've listed here.

probiner
- I miss a transforms panel that is used for both object and component mode. Being able to type in 3+ and have offset each object/component by 3 using the selected alignment mode I've selected. In Object mode it allows to do L(-1,1), R(-1,1) and have a linear or random distribution of the objects and in component mode it allows me to inspect and set the positions of the components using the selected alignment mode.

“Being able to type in 3+ and have offset each object/component by 3 using the selected alignment mode I've selected” can be achieved with the MMB ladder. You can already use various expressions in H in the channel boxes so it might be possible to achieve that, albeit not as straight forward. IMO, in some cases it's better to trade a bit of simplicity for versatility/power. Not sure it's the case here, but just saying, it could be the case.

probiner
- I miss a snapping system that is there for you just by holding a key temporarily and then go by to unsnapped editing by releasing it. And it also working with temporary pivot.

We've been told (three versions ago) that we'll see some major snapping improvements or even an overhaul. Still keeping my fingers crossed. I've created a number of threads and not sure if RFEs for them too, so lots of info might be lost and the issue might've fallen under SESI's radar. What's a bit worrying, for me, is that snapping got even further back in the bus as it had its hotkeys stolen by the radial menus. Hopefully it's a transition phase towards the new snapping system in which you need only a hotkey to activate it.

probiner
- I miss being able to hold a key to quickly setup a pivot another to snap it and go about what I wanted to do by releasing it.

It's the ‘ key in Houdini, but you probably now that. Basically, it’s a “transient key” issue regarding usability since the feature is already here. And the default hotkey is also an issue, not being close to the left hand and all. “alt” modifier would be great, alas “alt” is still trapped in the limbo of redundancy.
When we'll be able to activate it in transient mode it will come up the issue of snapping, because most of the time you'll want the “pivot” to snap to a point or edge and then you're holding the ‘ key and you’ll also have to hold another for snapping. Not needless to say, activating the “pivot” in transient mode, would have to have snapping enabled by default and make the user disable it if s/he chooses to, instead of having to enable it.

probiner
- I miss the Reset Translation command that it would put the object back in rest position or it would center components.

But even before that, since it will take care of that too at least in some sense, should be a way to input a value for all three axis at once, something like you do in XSI - shift+RMB in the small box under S, R and T icons (channel boxes will turn blue), type value and press Enter - great for zero-ing out objects.
The “centering” of the components is related to being able to move an object while having it's geometry stay in place (in XSI, transforming the object while in Center sub-component mode). Filed RFE for this also, as a “keep geo in place” under “keep position when parenting”. Obviously this would need to create an edit node inside SOP, which we needn't dive into when this option is checked.

probiner

Notice how a simple change of color instead of glow effects on the gizmo makes for a much better visual cue.
Edited by McNistor - July 23, 2017 07:47:29

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handle_settings.jpg (97.8 KB)
insta.gif (1.6 MB)

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McNistor
Or to the distance to the mouse cursor in order to activate the gizmo?
This. Is it worded to be implemented?

McNistor
Tried this a few times in XSI but found it impractical.
You might not even manipulate the object but just keep tabs on which direction it is.

McNistor
As some devs. already said, “sticky/transient keys” will see the light in a future version.
Great news!

McNistor
“Being able to type in 3+ and have offset each object/component by 3 using the selected alignment mode I've selected” can be achieved with the MMB ladder. You can already use various expressions in H in the channel boxes so it might be possible to achieve that, albeit not as straight forward. IMO, in some cases it's better to trade a bit of simplicity for versatility/power. Not sure it's the case here, but just saying, it could be the case.

No it's quite different. MMB Ladder is great but you can't offset multiple components/objects along they local axis with it. You either use the MMB on the handles and that will make all entities (objects or components selection islands)move along the same direction, not on each entity's local space. On the other hand if you type a value in the Transform Panel it will always be in Parent Space for objects and for components http://i.imgur.com/1TnKmsH.gif [i.imgur.com] Like if XSI COG is on.
Unlike in XSI where what the space option in the transforms panel decides how that offset is handles.
http://i.imgur.com/ZGxmFPC.gif [i.imgur.com]
http://i.imgur.com/xbqkJWU.gif [i.imgur.com]

You also can't select a bunch of points and set they Y value for example, which you could in the transforms panel.
http://i.imgur.com/T9nVqWD.gif [i.imgur.com]

More over the L() was perfect to distribute items and now not having such utility feels quite a set back.


I really miss that whole system. It's not perfect like I usually say about XSI, “it's not the best at anything but it's good at everything” and it was well rounded for both object and component manipulation, meaning you really felt what you need was front and center both when you animating and modeling.

McNistor
Notice how a simple change of color instead of glow effects on the gizmo makes for a much better visual cue.
I dislike the glow but don't have a great beef with it.

I tried your gizmo settings but I don't see the advantage about them. This is, I like the View Space rotation handle, but I don't grasp the advantage of having the negative axis showing up or the plan constrain handles showing in the same spot of the central handle. Plane constrain gizmo is very well sorted in Blender: Key Combo + Axis = constrained to a plane perpendicular to it. No additional gizmos required just a visual hint of the plane they are constrained to.


Thanks for the lengthy reply McNistor!
Cheers
Edited by probiner - July 25, 2017 01:06:02
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About Transient key, this remind me the viewport tool.

The viewport transient key require you to hit alt each time you want to change view otherwise you're moving the same view outside of the view himself.
That's a feature who bug me when I'm trying to navigate in a quad view form example

Can you guys tell me if it's just me or this happens to you too.

In my opinion a transient key should reset his state accordingly where you are clicking.

Are you agree ?
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probiner
No it's quite different.


I agree, but don't hold the ladder feature hostage for every transformations related issue you stumble upon in Houdini, because transformations in H are still satisfactory only for the simulation part of 3d. If you don't know already about it, you might wanna check this thread: https://sidefx.com/forum/topic/42294/ [sidefx.com]



probiner
I tried your gizmo settings but I don't see the advantage about them. This is, I like the View Space rotation handle, but I don't grasp the advantage of having the negative axis showing up or the plan constrain handles showing in the same spot of the central handle. Plane constrain gizmo is very well sorted in Blender: Key Combo + Axis = constrained to a plane perpendicular to it. No additional gizmos required just a visual hint of the plane they are constrained to.

Having the negative part of this axis shown will ensure you can grab any axis from any position of the camera you're looking through without interference with the plane perpendicular to the said axis. I can show you a print screen if it's not clear.
It seems that Blender system is simple and elegant enough, at least on paper, but having to press a modifier key for every time you want to translate/scale into a plane doesn't seem (judging without trying) like an encouraging prospect, especially when you model and have to transform thousands of times per day.

IMO, gizmos (with the exception of the damn glow) in Houdini are good to go. Transformations, on the other hand, need a lot of improvements.
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I read and supported that thread x) My last remark was that you can't edit two objects at the same time.

Thanks for the extended explanations. I'll test it out more.

Cheers
Edited by probiner - July 25, 2017 11:56:48
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you can easily lock the Position of all object nodes in Python:

for i in hou.node(/obj).children():
  for j in i.parmTuple(t):j.lock(1)
Edited by bunker__ - July 26, 2017 20:20:35
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