What's with the new fuse/snap SOPs?

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I'm selecting two points, call a fuse sop from shelf (via hotkey), and the node created ignores my selection.
Is this a bug or an intended workflow? I hope it's a bug, but the “group” and “target group” presence with an arrow selector makes me believe it's intended.
Another kick in the viewport-friendly modeling workflow's …
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I understand the need to have the “group” and “target group” distinction and it does confer procedural power to the new SOP. I want that and I need it.
So in order to not give only flak, here's some constructive suggestions on how to not totally ignore the viewport functionality needed in direct modeling.
So, “group”(G) acts as both “target” and “source” when “target group”(TG) is disabled (default). So having points designated only to G (TG off) will produce something based on w/e is set by “output positions” (default - average value), like here:




When the latter is enabled, w/e is in G it will snap/fuse to TG. This makes “output positions” rule obsolete, since G will snap/fuse to TG, for the case in which TG has only one point.



For TG with multiple points, each G point will look for the nearest TG point and as the “snap distace” increases, they will ultimetely collapse into a single TG point. This is harder to show in images, but you can surely test it out.

With these in mind, perhaps having a selection prompt, as many other shelf tools have, is the best way to deal with these:
- select one or a few points, call Fuse SOP and auto-assign that to G
- press enter (i still don't know why Return is still used for these instead of shift+RMB, or any thing else that doesn't require moving the hand from one side of the kb to the other) to select TG, if any
- enter again to commit on G selection only
I might haven't thought this through very thoroughly, so issues could exist with this, but it's no excuse to be left with the current abysmal snap/fuse workflow in the viewport.

Attachments:
g_to_g.jpg (846.6 KB)
g_to_tg.jpg (833.7 KB)

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McNistor
I understand the need to have the “group” and “target group” distinction and it does confer procedural power to the new SOP. I want that and I need it.
So in order to not give only flak, here's some constructive suggestions on how to not totally ignore the viewport functionality needed in direct modeling.
So, “group”(G) acts as both “target” and “source” when “target group”(TG) is disabled (default). So having points designated only to G (TG off) will produce something based on w/e is set by “output positions” (default - average value), like here:

Image Not Found



When the latter is enabled, w/e is in G it will snap/fuse to TG. This makes “output positions” rule obsolete, since G will snap/fuse to TG, for the case in which TG has only one point.

Image Not Found


For TG with multiple points, each G point will look for the nearest TG point and as the “snap distace” increases, they will ultimetely collapse into a single TG point. This is harder to show in images, but you can surely test it out.

With these in mind, perhaps having a selection prompt, as many other shelf tools have, is the best way to deal with these:
- select one or a few points, call Fuse SOP and auto-assign that to G
- press enter (i still don't know why Return is still used for these instead of shift+RMB, or any thing else that doesn't require moving the hand from one side of the kb to the other) to select TG, if any
- enter again to commit on G selection only
I might haven't thought this through very thoroughly, so issues could exist with this, but it's no excuse to be left with the current abysmal snap/fuse workflow in the viewport.


Yup, very reasonable. If you haven't created an RFE, please do.

Cheers,
Scott
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Hi Scott,
Will definitely do that.
One nagging question keeps rattling through the back of my mind, specifically, why we're in this situation to begin with after a new modeling SOP's out, but that is fraught with nonconstructive jabber, albeit conducive to informing SESI and not only, about a few things related to the current info gathering and testing in the prior to “release the hounds” stage.
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- press enter (i still don't know why Return is still used for these instead of shift+RMB, or any thing else that doesn't require moving the hand from one side of the kb to the other) to select TG, if any

The RMB menu has ‘Accept Selection’.
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McNistor
- press enter (i still don't know why Return is still used for these instead of shift+RMB, or any thing else that doesn't require moving the hand from one side of the kb to the other) to select TG, if any

The RMB menu has ‘Accept Selection’.

Better yet, I've discovered that actually shift+RMB works for accepting selection as well, not only for finishing a drawing session, like a curve or bone chain.
So the take home here is that, another version was released, one that supposedly addressed the less than optimal old fuse workflow and we still don't have a fuse workflow that works well in viewport.
Hopefully H18 will solve this and add a few crucial features, missed by many, like editing multiple objects simultaneously, proper local transformations for components, with a global control toggle, to centroid snapping and centroid transformation, save prefs for snap options, etc. At least these mentioned here and I'd be a happy hippo, such that I might actually start modeling in H.
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Sorry. I fixed the issue reported at the top a month ago, but forgot to backport the fix to the public build. It should be fixed in 17.5.200.

Target Group is not used by default, so that the behaviour is similar to the previous behaviour. If you would like an option to select both, that may be possible with a separate shelf tool, but I don't know immediately, so please submit an RFE.
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Cool!
Not sure why another shelf-tool is necessary (a third?) if the behavior I've proposed above is implemented, but at this point I'm happy it's going to be fixed, even if partially, sooner than H18.
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