Houdini 20 Solaris / Karma thoughts

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Hello, after a month or so playing around with Solaris and Karma in houdini 19.0 and the new houdini 20.0, we've got some thoughts and questions.

First of all, thanks for the amazing release of houdini 20. As always, it's a big step forward, not only with Solaris/Karma, but with all the amazing new features and updates!

However, there are some aspects that we find lacking in Solaris, and would like to know some thoughts on that.

1. my biggest complain right now, is the way how you iterate look development, or sampling quality in Karma. In short, why doesn't it work more similarly to Mantra render view? Why do i have to have at least two windows open all the time? Viewport for clicking the render button and taking snapshots, and then render gallery for actually looking at it? The functionality of these two windows is overlapping quite a bit, and it is a huge waste of screen space in my opinion. Why is it not possible to run renders from render gallery window (using existing camera)? To me, that seems like such an obvious thing to be able to do. Or not? Ability of being able to move freely in the viewport, and see the render updating almost instantly is cool, but not that useful for us. What we need most importantly is to be able to see final quality image from the camera view, zoom in and out, inspect pixel values and AOVs. All that while the render is running. Using Clones tab kinda allows for that, but it's yet another unnecessary window - all we need is a render button in the render gallery window.

2. Karma pixel/ray sampling - it's got much better from times of H19.0, both in speed and settings. I love how instantly i can see the first pixels. However, in my tests i frequently ended up in situations where i could get presentable quality render in 1 minute, but then sampling it to the final quality was kinda problem. Especially emissive materials are an issue, as that can only be cleaned up by primary samples, if I'm not mistaken (treating is as light doesn't seem to speed the render up).

3. Following up on previous point, there is something in Redshift I love, and it'd be awesome if it was possible to do for Karma too. Talking about automatic sampling. You only have ONE slider that controls amount of noise in the image. That's it, and it works like a charm. All the calculations regarding number of samples for individual lobes are handled by the rederer "for free", and the resulting render is always faster and cleaner than when i try dialing it manually. I admit in the last few years i became super spoiled by it, and forgot how time consuming it may be to get the right combo of numbers for noise free images. Now, when i know this is possible, I want it in Karma too

thank you, D.
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davpe
Why is it not possible to run renders from render gallery window (using existing camera)?

I may be completely misunderstanding what this is about, but in H20, the render gallery should have this functionality.

- You create a render gallery window
- Press on that "Background" button to start a render. Down below in the gallery strip a new thumbnail appears with the developing rendering.
- Click on the thumbnail while the render is still churning. You see a view similar to mplay in the elder days above the thumbnail strip, with the rendering progressing.
- You can pop out the new render stats, zoom the picture, use the inspector, all while the rendering is running. I basically have replaced my classic workflow with this.

Is this not what you are suggesting?
Martin Winkler
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I've seen some staff comment that this auto sampling is in road map. I hope it will be at least for 20.5. Also there will be great improvement in performance for gpus with Ada architecture
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davpe
Why is it not possible to run renders from render gallery window (using existing camera)?

I may be completely misunderstanding what this is about, but in H20, the render gallery should have this functionality.

- You create a render gallery window
- Press on that "Background" button to start a render. Down below in the gallery strip a new thumbnail appears with the developing rendering.
- Click on the thumbnail while the render is still churning. You see a view similar to mplay in the elder days above the thumbnail strip, with the rendering progressing.
- You can pop out the new render stats, zoom the picture, use the inspector, all while the rendering is running. I basically have replaced my classic workflow with this.

Is this not what you are suggesting?

hey, thanks for you reply! yes this is kinda sorta what i wanted, and it will make my life easier now. I must have missed it.

Now there is a question to sidefx devs:

It currently behaves in pretty much opposite way than I'd like it to: It always renders what i see in the active viewport, ignoring the camera parm in Render settings. Could we also have the opposite? To always render from the specified camera, regardless what i see in the viewport, or whether the viewport actually exists? Maybe the current behaviour is what many artists want, but I find it quite annoying to be honest.

Also, this is just a detail, but could the above mentioned "Background" button be called something more intuitive, like "Render"? I completely ignored it as something insignificant, and it never struck me i can run the actual render with it.
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Thank you for that feedback. The background rendering and cloning both find themselves in "ambiguous" (for lack of a better word) territory as to how much of the viewport (and what can be done there - by which I'll include the Scene Graph Tree) they should/shouldn't be taking into account. It's something we continue to discuss internally.

FYI, "Background" used to be "Background Render" internally, but it made for a disproportionately large button, and got shortened. It's been mentioned before that it's not as obvious/discoverable as we'd like. Maybe you're right and we simply cut the wrong word.
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robp_sidefx
Thank you for that feedback. The background rendering and cloning both find themselves in "ambiguous" (for lack of a better word) territory as to how much of the viewport (and what can be done there - by which I'll include the Scene Graph Tree) they should/shouldn't be taking into account. It's something we continue to discuss internally.

FYI, "Background" used to be "Background Render" internally, but it made for a disproportionately large button, and got shortened. It's been mentioned before that it's not as obvious/discoverable as we'd like. Maybe you're right and we simply cut the wrong word.

Alright, thanks a lot for your answer. All that is good to hear. We appreciate it's a work in progress, and it may be improved in the future.

Regarding camera vs. viewport render - I can imagine having a checkbox or something in Render Gallery UI, that would lock rendering to a specified camera / render settings LOP. If unchecked, it'd work as it does now.
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While iterating and chaging some materials in Karma (CPU or XPU) it crashes a lot. Just a simple scene. I hoped it would be more stabel then Redshift
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While iterating and chaging some materials in Karma (CPU or XPU) it crashes a lot. Just a simple scene. I hoped it would be more stabel then Redshift

Really? no crashes here since 20
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nickfr
While iterating and chaging some materials in Karma (CPU or XPU) it crashes a lot. Just a simple scene. I hoped it would be more stabel then Redshift

Wow... this should not be happening, as Jonathan says, we were under the impression it was stable.
Could you post a bug report, with repro scene + exact steps please?
We should be able to get this fixed ASAP.

thanks lots
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