tinyparticleBut they would have switch him every 2 weeks or month
They should hire a newbie and let him test Houdini vigorously
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Houdini Indie and Apprentice » Houdini First Impression
- probiner
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Technical Discussion » Default Viewport Shading. Good feature request?
- probiner
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Oh, yeah, multiple lights could be it. Indeed it seems with only at least 3 lights you get rid of the dark area, but test your setup not only with the sphere. Cube are much more challenging, look at those ugly lines in mine
video: http://screencast.com/t/Bp8E15TzJ [screencast.com]
I used 4 lights here. 3 for difuse angle around. 1 staight ahead for spec. So many lights, options and probably performance drag (?), next we know we are asking for matcaps [gfycat.com] instead, easier
XSI uses only 1
LightWave and Modo use 2 it seems.
Blender, 3?
video: http://screencast.com/t/Bp8E15TzJ [screencast.com]
I used 4 lights here. 3 for difuse angle around. 1 staight ahead for spec. So many lights, options and probably performance drag (?), next we know we are asking for matcaps [gfycat.com] instead, easier
XSI uses only 1
LightWave and Modo use 2 it seems.
Blender, 3?
Houdini Indie and Apprentice » LWO exporter broken?
- probiner
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Made a sphere, entered the obj, right-click on node and Save > Geometry.
In LightWave can't load it. The sphere showing is an OBJ.
The written file is 0 bytes
PLY also not working properly. Not 0bytes (file bigger than OBJ), but couldn't open it in any application.
Cheers
In LightWave can't load it. The sphere showing is an OBJ.
The written file is 0 bytes
PLY also not working properly. Not 0bytes (file bigger than OBJ), but couldn't open it in any application.
Cheers
SI Users » Houdini Group chat
- probiner
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SI Users » Houdini Group chat
- probiner
- 339 posts
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SI Users » Align Viewport to Object's axes?
- probiner
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MartybNz
Yes - it's a bit hidden- you set to ‘Hide Other Object’, view tool then Y key, or top right blue ball menu. See gif/.hip file.
Many thanks. For anyone reading, you have to be inside the object for it to work.
And because of this I would consider this more like a Transforms toggle. Where you see the object in Local Space and not world due to ignoring the Transforms.
What is being asked is more like posing a camera according to an object's axis. I would even like to do it according an object's polygon, which you can't in XSI, unless you align a null first to a polygon and then the camera to the null.
Cheers
PS: One little detail I noticed your scene opened in here with the same BG you have in your image. But if make “New” or open a scene of mine it changed to teal color I set. Opening your scene back it sets he BG to black again. So even though I've set that color in a config file the BG color is saved with the scene? Just minor detail. But was curious.
Edited by - Oct. 23, 2015 09:23:54
Technical Discussion » Default Viewport Shading. Good feature request?
- probiner
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tamteprobiner
…
Your image shows the two shading types in action?
…
I feel like twod threw in another heavily discussed problem about viewport shading and that automatic cusping of vertex normal for the geometry
as many apps have that concept that cusped normals are applied on the geo automatically based on user defined angle if no vertex normals are present. Houdini doesn't do that, hence the need to manually append Normals SOP if there is a need for that
But I feel like you weren't concerned about cusping, rather about values produced at the points and hence interpolated within the polygon
one thing is for certain, what you are proposing is faking the natural light response at the given normal orientation just to get something more visually pleasing, which is what Jason was talking about. Simply Houdini's viewport tries to aim for representing materials as you would see them in Mantra, therefore compare those 2 to see the difference
the other side is really handling the normals to better represent the shape you are looking at and that's where cusped normals can come into play
since looking at box with normals trying to represent a sphere is not what anyone wants and then trying to fix that by artificially bending the light to 180 degrees is simply misleading since while the interpolated box may appear nicer to you, the sphere will be shaded 0-180 as well which would not be representing the correct lighting at all
Ok, on the light of that I understand Jason's point better.
Well, yes, smooth cubes are rendered like that. On the other hand, when you render I assume you don't use headlight, but an actual lighting setup with image based aspects. And of course it's nice you can predict how things will render, more over with the establishment of PBR or just a straight Interactive Preview Rendering.
I wasn't indeed concerned at all about edge cusping, like I said in opening post, but I can agree the use of Angle Threshold as basic rule with hard edge marking or vertex normal map on top is nice.
I started to like the look of the Houdini smooth normals, specially because of the soft spec and less triangulated look, I just didn't like the way they were shaded when the normal started to face back. What I had in mind with this thread was more of a modeling shader look, not as convoluted as this mockup [probiner.xyz], but something simple that just looks nice under headlight and it allows a good inspection of meshes shape while you work them and they are modeled, deformed, tumbled, etc.
So a separate mode? Yeah maybe, I got a sense that Houdini is taking some turns and starting to harbor not just hardcore VFX, so maybe a visualization mode that aids to those could be nice.
Again I'm no rendering, OGL guy, just evaluating what I see on the surface and trying to grasp it.
MartybNzI need to check how to do this. Some glazing reflections might ease up though it wasn't what I was looking for here.
In H15 ‘Normal’ lighting can now use an environment light, make sure to put an image in the slot, that fills in the blackness.
Thanks
Technical Discussion » Default Viewport Shading. Good feature request?
- probiner
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twodAh so it's using Oren-Nayar, much easier to setup and match. There were some strange cone shaded looking subtleties I didn't know where they were coming from. What is “mapping NdL”. So it's actually to and not just half? I thought midway through to the back it was pitch black, which gamma doesn't handle that “well”.
H15 uses the Oren-Nayar diffuse model, and mapping NdL from to produces strange artifacts on the opposite side of the model (not surprising since it's trying to sensibly light a geometric oddity - a sphere mapped to a cube).
twodI'm mostly meddling with things here Just trying to graps why it looks no that great on such cases. Hope you can find a solution that respects all he constrains the best.
I still feel that the best solution (…)
Your image shows the two shading types in action?
Thank you for chimming in!
Edited by - Oct. 22, 2015 05:03:47
Technical Discussion » Default Viewport Shading. Good feature request?
- probiner
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MartybNzEvery other 3D application I've used up to now, ehehe So, I'm adding Maya to the list of apps that do it like that!
Which other apps have you been using that have a good looking 2.2 gamma? Maya doesn't appear to.
Here is again the LW setup with and without Color Correction.
A cube or pyramid are much more convex than a sphere so smooth dense meshes don't show this so more, but if you were to look at them from the side of the Point of View you would see the first in the image below.
I propose 180º instead of 90º gradient. Last, a bit modulation to recover some of the blacks to the POV and raise contrast, but it will most certainly never go black on the glazing angle.
Just to finish, here is the bottom polygon of a cone.
And remember (!) These are all aproximations, tests I did in LightWave3D Renderer. Doesn't emulate Houdini OGL perfectly, while still adressing the issue that I think it would make everything look better, the shading gradient.
Cheers
SI Users » Align Viewport to Object's axes?
- probiner
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Well, worst case scenario… are you able to right now copy the pose of the object to to the viewport camera like you can in XSI with Save and Load Preset?
Or do a Match All Transforms?
Cheers
Or do a Match All Transforms?
Cheers
Technical Discussion » Default Viewport Shading. Good feature request?
- probiner
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MartybNz
Why does Maya 2015 do it when you soften normals?
Edit: When setting Houdini viewport to Gamma 1, it has the exact same shading as Maya, barring any eye effects due to the different BG
Can you place a specular hit there? If it's soft and round it's because it does the same as houdini. Meaning, normals are not interpolated like a vertex color map is, but calculated per pixel of the cube surface, somehow. I'm not a OGL/rendering guy
As for the gamma effect, yup, it's there. But in all honesty, the fact the shading actually goes to black is what causes the weirdness of their combo, I think. Been using other applications that apply 2.2 to the viewport and doesn't look like that.
Technical Discussion » Default Viewport Shading. Good feature request?
- probiner
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McNistorCool. I was just wondering if it was “reasonable” to others before filing it. Thought now that I mention it, I don't know where to file it
I know you didn't know, that's why I told you.
It has been discussed with the devs, yes.
jason_iversen
I think while your shading look does appear nicer for rough models, it's at odds with realistic shading which is where the viewport is headed. In other words it'll improve the feel at first, but mislead you as you move forward into more complex scenes.
However, SESI might be open to having an alternate, user-selectable mode to the PBR viewport shading - like an NPR vs PBR mode. I'd imagine it might help with some real-time or demo uses - as a business reason to do such a thing.
Hi jason.
I only changed the range of incidence gradient in that setup, nothing else; still shades like houdini. I don't see why this is related to PBR or would clash with it. Can you explain? Is this some development goal I'm not aware of?
Viewports have have different shading modes, even a flat one like “Hidden Line Ghost”. They serve different purposes. It's not like I'm dissing PBR in favor of matcaps, for example.
Cheers
Technical Discussion » Default Viewport Shading. Good feature request?
- probiner
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McNistor
Subject discussed ad nauseam. It will be dealt with some time in the future.
I don't come by many times so I didn't know. So is there a report or a word from devs that it will be adressed?
Cheers
Technical Discussion » Default Viewport Shading. Good feature request?
- probiner
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First - Is there a proper subforum to discuss feature requests?
Second - I'm not after Flat shading. What I'm discussing here is having Smooth shading on low poly meshes looking better. Please don't just say “Use Normal SOP”.
Third - I know this is mostly a pet peeve, it won't stop anyone from using Houdini in all its glory, but it's certainly a point raised by most newcomers and could ease up the initial impact. There's many small things like this, not fundamental on how the system works, but on user experience.
Something I always found odd in Houdini was the smooth shading, it is different from other applications. Today I grasped a bit, not all, of why is it. It's not evaluated like a vertex map, but there's normal value per pixel/spot in the surface.
All fine, but given that the incidence gradient used to shade is set from 0 to 90º (or 180 to 90º depending on how you look at it) insted of full 0º to 180º there will be visible black clipping when polygons facing forward and backward meet.
Almost not noticeable with dense meshes, but quite ugly with low poly.
The more I grasp it the more I like the way Houdini's smooth shading way. The soft spec hits in particular are quite nice! But I think some glazing angle areas can look much much better.
Feature request video:
https://youtu.be/jWHWCUWFuW8 [youtu.be]
Cheers
Edited by - Oct. 21, 2015 12:48:51
SI Users » Align Viewport to Object's axes?
- probiner
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Is there a way in Houdini o align the viewport to an object X, Y or Z? like in XSI?
The construction plane seems like it could be it, but didn't find an option that did it.
Am I missing something?
Thank you.
The construction plane seems like it could be it, but didn't find an option that did it.
Am I missing something?
Thank you.
Houdini Indie and Apprentice » Houdini Viewport Display questions
- probiner
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twod
You can add an ambient light, or increase the default material Emission color (Display Options, Effects tab) to get a brighter shadow area.
Hi twod, thanks again.
- Adding ambient light is not the intended, specially because I was looking into using headlight.
- Increasing emission is also not desireable as it changes all the shading.
If I delete the polygons on the other side it gets better.
http://i.imgur.com/x7Zdd2J.png [i.imgur.com]
http://i.imgur.com/KAuiNzE.png [i.imgur.com]
So I would guess the problem is in both how Houdini does smooth shading, where it seems to show the shading of the hidden polygons in a wrap around way; and how the lighthing is (0, black for view incidence >90º. So, trying to show neighbor polygons normal when they are facing back = black, 0.)
I am sincerly curious of how/why Houdini does the smooth shading it does here, like no other application. They usual linealy interpolate between vertices.
Is this maybe something of feature request level? If the shading was from 180º incidence to 0ºincidence there would be no black areas as of now where it seems the shading is from 90º incidence to 0º incidence.
Cheers
Houdini Indie and Apprentice » Houdini Viewport Display questions
- probiner
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Hi twod thanks for the help.
#1
In the video I'm talking about the actual look of smooth shaded, not that I want to cusp its edges.
Here it is a cube with “Add Vertex Normals” in the box SOP and then a “Normal SOP” added to make it look smooth again.
http://i.imgur.com/19AIn4t.png [i.imgur.com]
Not only I don't know how to control the shading so it never goes to black, but the 2.2 gamma augments the “clipped” look. And I want to control that so, low poly meshes can look reasonable even if they are smooth shaded like below:
http://i.imgur.com/2ccJpfe.png [i.imgur.com]
So my question is how do I control the lighting/material combo, so I have no clip at all, or at least not black.
One thing that hints to me that Houdini solves smooth shading very differently than other applications is the spec hit. Even though it's a low poly mesh it's a localized round hit. This coupled with the ugly glazing black suggests that it's trying to smooth them almost like a sphere wrap and not linear interpolated. And if that's the case and Houdini works very differently than the others, maybe my tweaking attempts are a lost cause.
#2
http://i.imgur.com/1s4ObC9.png [i.imgur.com]
Cheers
#1
In the video I'm talking about the actual look of smooth shaded, not that I want to cusp its edges.
Here it is a cube with “Add Vertex Normals” in the box SOP and then a “Normal SOP” added to make it look smooth again.
http://i.imgur.com/19AIn4t.png [i.imgur.com]
Not only I don't know how to control the shading so it never goes to black, but the 2.2 gamma augments the “clipped” look. And I want to control that so, low poly meshes can look reasonable even if they are smooth shaded like below:
http://i.imgur.com/2ccJpfe.png [i.imgur.com]
So my question is how do I control the lighting/material combo, so I have no clip at all, or at least not black.
One thing that hints to me that Houdini solves smooth shading very differently than other applications is the spec hit. Even though it's a low poly mesh it's a localized round hit. This coupled with the ugly glazing black suggests that it's trying to smooth them almost like a sphere wrap and not linear interpolated. And if that's the case and Houdini works very differently than the others, maybe my tweaking attempts are a lost cause.
#2
http://i.imgur.com/1s4ObC9.png [i.imgur.com]
Cheers
Houdini Indie and Apprentice » Houdini Viewport Display questions
- probiner
- 339 posts
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Hi
- I never got over of how Houdini shades simple meshes with smooth shaded. Is there anything I can do to improve that?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2J9V2XnNnE [youtube.com]
- In version 13 I edited the file 3DSceneColors.wb to get the viewport backgroud color the way I wanted following this thread [sidefx.com] . But I can't find those files for this version only for 13:
http://prntscr.com/8t9qey [prntscr.com]
I remember it was a gradient parameter and I basically set both to the same color. Where is this now changed?
- I never got over of how Houdini shades simple meshes with smooth shaded. Is there anything I can do to improve that?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2J9V2XnNnE [youtube.com]
- In version 13 I edited the file 3DSceneColors.wb to get the viewport backgroud color the way I wanted following this thread [sidefx.com] . But I can't find those files for this version only for 13:
http://prntscr.com/8t9qey [prntscr.com]
I remember it was a gradient parameter and I basically set both to the same color. Where is this now changed?
SI Users » Houdini Group chat
- probiner
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SI Users » Houdini Group chat
- probiner
- 339 posts
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Are you saying all that for free users? Are you a paying user. Won't be easy to tell my friends to move on to something else they don't know and now have to pay.
The no need to have another application I got it from the moment I signed in on slack.
Slack seems a bit more team project oriented than forum chat, no?
What has been your experience.
I keep making questions because, while this looks nice, I'm not very convinced about transitioning. I guess I would have to try it for myself with other people for a while. Skype is becoming a lemon indeed.
Cheers
The no need to have another application I got it from the moment I signed in on slack.
Slack seems a bit more team project oriented than forum chat, no?
What has been your experience.
I keep making questions because, while this looks nice, I'm not very convinced about transitioning. I guess I would have to try it for myself with other people for a while. Skype is becoming a lemon indeed.
Cheers
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