Houdini 20.5.300. Default settings without any hotkeys and addons. I assign a key to any shelf tool. The hotkey works. If I switch to another keymap and then switch back to the one where the binding was created, the hotkey cannot be found because it is saved without a label and description, as evidenced by analyzing the file Houdini.keymap2.overrides:



Additionally, unlike in Houdini 20, it is now impossible to add default hotkey symbols for tools in any way. For example, h.pane.gview.tool:my_shelf_tool could be created in Houdini 20 by adding them to the config/Hotkeys folder in your package. As a result, the hotkey symbol with a description and label was available for any keymap and could be easily found in the hotkey editor. In Houdini 20.5, this is not possible.

I've already submitted an RFE. However, I'd like to discuss this topic further.

I've reported it since 297. Sad to know it's still not fixed

Should this be RFE or Defect?

LukeP
Should this be RFE or Defect?

This is broken hotkey functionality that used to work fine. How can one use a program if even the hotkeys don't work properly?

alexeyvanzhula1984

LukeP
Should this be RFE or Defect?

This is broken hotkey functionality that used to work fine. How can one use a program if even the hotkeys don't work properly?

My point exactly. RFE is request for enhancement. What you described is a defect. I would create a bug report not RFE.

I’m sure that SifeFX wants to make the software more stable.

Out of habit, I call them RFEs, but I actually mean bug reports

alexeyvanzhula1984
Out of habit, I call them RFEs, but I actually mean bug reports

I’ve noticed you posted a few videos on youtube with the problems in Houdini 20.5. Maybe have a thread here with links to those videos and reference to bug reports. I’m assuming that SideFX product / leadership team is watching these threads. Those types of things don’t always trickle up and I agree they are show stoppers in some cases. Ultimately no matter what great features there are in the software, if it’s not stable - no one will use it.

LukeP

alexeyvanzhula1984
Out of habit, I call them RFEs, but I actually mean bug reports

I’ve noticed you posted a few videos on youtube with the problems in Houdini 20.5. Maybe have a thread here with links to those videos and reference to bug reports. I’m assuming that SideFX product / leadership team is watching these threads. Those types of things don’t always trickle up and I agree they are show stoppers in some cases. Ultimately no matter what great features there are in the software, if it’s not stable - no one will use it.

I have sent bug reports with links to these videos.

And I don't really want to create a separate topic because such topics get closed by administrators.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLktqXrNHKHgcXLjM9Jup0z3a5b9AeAV9o [www.youtube.com]

Hope SideFX is listening

I honestly have never seen a software dev team just shrugs and goes like "yep, we broke all your hotkeys from previous version. Just deal it yourself."

Even software that requires the users to be very tech-savvy, like emacs, won't do that.

timurproko
I've noticed ongoing requests for UX improvements in Houdini for many years, but it seems that instead of enhancements, we're seeing a degradation of existing features. A significant issue is the Hotkey Manager. Let's break down why I consider the changes to the Hotkey Manager a degradation with some examples.

1. The 20.5 release no longer supports the old file format for hotkey overrides (v1). Now, users must manually convert their shortcut overrides to v2 using Python. This raises the ongoing debate about whether Houdini requires development knowledge. At this point, it's clear that development knowledge is necessary, as there is no UI for converting v1 to v2 overrides. This shift essentially turns Houdini into a development IDE for working with 3D, requiring users to create their own UI for basic tasks.

2. I attempted to use a Python script to convert my overrides from v1 to v2, but it didn't work for me due to the lack of documentation on how the keymaputils.importV1KeymapBindingsToKeymapFile function operates. The only available information is in this forum thread: https://www.sidefx.com/forum/topic/97007/?page=1#post-426749 [www.sidefx.com]

3. There is no indication for users that they need to convert their shortcuts from the previous version.

4. I managed to manually re-enter all my shortcuts, which took me a full day. Some shortcuts don't work as they did in the previous version, requiring further investigation on my part to debug the issues.

5. The Hotkey Manager UI has been updated, but with several degradations. Searching for commands is now more cumbersome. You must use an asterisk (*) in the first filter and enter a command name in the second. Previously, you could simply type the command name in one input field, which was much more intuitive.

6. If you enter a query only in the second filter to find a command, it won't work because the UI requires you to select a Context in the left panel first. The overall concept of having contexts is questionable in terms of usability. If you ask users why they open the Hotkey Manager, few would say they want to manage Contexts; they usually just want to find and change an Action shortcut.

7. The Actions panel does not display information from the keymap.override file, such as Label and Description. As a result, the names for all custom commands are empty, which looks very odd. It seems doubtful that this dialog underwent any thorough QA testing.

8. The default state is not optimal. Why isn't the "All Actions" option selected by default in the Context panel, allowing users to filter all commands more easily?

9. The overall categorization in the Context panel appears disorganized. Having a Houdini section within the Houdini application seems redundant. It needs more attention and reorganization.

10. The Hotkey Manager doesn't retain its state between sessions. If you hide the keyboard or the Context panel, they will reappear upon the next launch.


Here are some simple improvements that could significantly enhance the user experience:

1. Automate the conversion from v1 to v2 so users don't have to handle it manually.
2. Add an "All Actions" item for the Context panel selected by default.
3. Save the UI state between sessions to ensure it remains persistent. This way, users can hide the keyboard and Context panel and focus on filtering Actions instead.
4. Fix the issue with empty items for custom commands.

With these changes, the interface would allow users to simply start typing in one filter to find the command they need, which is what most users are looking for.

Wow. That’s a lot of limitations and step backs.
And no word from SideFX on what happened there.

I wonder why would they do that. This has been a common complaint from many people after looking at 20.5. And core functionality of the software

And no acknowledgement or explanation from SideFX. That’s not typically like them.

Weird that changes like that would be made and advertised as improvements without usability testing or understanding what has been removed.

timurproko
My assumption was that their focus was on the technology backend rather than the front-end. To save recipes, they created new API calls to capture all the parameters, which was not possible before. A similar approach was taken with shortcuts, using a new JSON format for keymap overrides. This is a positive step, but it usually has many implications and requires extensive testing, which likely didn't happen.

Regarding the UX, they lack a coherent strategy and make strange decisions that result in an interface that looks worse than one from 20 years ago, which they haven't updated in ages. It's best to hope they don't make further changes.

To avoid being overly critical without examples: the middle mouse dialog is a complete disaster from many perspectives. They would be better off leaving it untouched.

The mission impossible: To design an interface that shows zero information yet occupies the entire vertical space of a 4K monitor without fitting to the vertical space,

That’s interesting. I mean other than a few cosmetic things - font and alignment choices - I love the new MMB panel. It’s look though doesn’t seem to fit the rest of the Houdini at all.

There is a whole other thread discussing the UI / Design issues here:
https://www.sidefx.com/forum/topic/96883/?page=1 [www.sidefx.com]

I don't want to split that even further across two threads, but I have to agree with you 100% when you said:

"My assumption was that their focus was on the technology backend rather than the front-end."

I think this is the crux of the matter. It seems to me that Sidefx is stuffed with 'architecture astronauts' who see UI/UX as just a frustrating encumbrance before moving on to the next big technology.

_______
Edit: After coffee and review, yes, that was a little harsh. You hurt the ones you love the most : ).

Mike_A
I think this is the crux of the matter. It seems to me that Sidefx is stuffed with 'architecture astronauts' who see UI/UX as just a frustrating encumbrance before moving on to the next big technology.

I think that's a bit too grating. I don't think they view UI/UX as a frustrating impediment, they just don't have the inclination nor the expertise, they're architecture engineers not UI designers, after all.

Either way, best to stop psycho-analyzing and focus on what needs to be done with discussions and RFEs IMO.

timurproko
To save recipes, they created new API calls to capture all the parameters, which was not possible before......

.....Regarding the UX, they lack a coherent strategy and make strange decisions that result in an interface that looks worse than one from 20 years ago, which they haven't updated in ages

Don't you mean UI(appearance)in this case? The save recipes is an example UX - which for myself has been a boon, and a improvement in the UX.
Because it's so much quicker to create/edit and manage - I'm finding I'm using it more often rather than making presets before less ofter. It's improving my workflow, efficiency and enjoyment.

timurproko
that result in an interface that looks worse than one from 20 years ago, which they haven't updated in ages.

I'm tempted to screenshot my recent version of SolidWorks - Compared to that Houdini looks like something from the future while SolidWorks something from an 8-bit game in the 70's.
But SolidWorks has great nurb tools and it's good that they didn't sacrifice development time on UI eye candy but kept it on functionality.
Hope SideFX keeps giving under the hood emphasis rather than appearance.
Photoshop is a good example...UI has become really 'sexy' over the years. Just had a look from my old copy that was in CS2 compared to 2024 - Like night and day. Yet under the hood there is still lots that hasn't changed since CS2, which is unfortunate but an example of a company that emphasises what looks good instead of functionality.

LukeP
This has been a common complaint from many people after looking at 20.5. And core functionality of the software

Core functionality has improved for me in 20.5
Like the already mentioned recipes - Copernicus has many elements to it that allows greater flexibility in making your own 'tools' and workflows - which imo is the Hallmark of Houdini.
Being able to reference/switch between and each geo/lop/cop contexts much more easily is a real joy.
I don't normally do much render work - but the ease of use now (UX Improvement) has gotten me experimenting and thinking how I can use it in ways I couldn't as easily before.

Mike_A
There is a whole other thread discussing the UI / Design issues here:
https://www.sidefx.com/forum/topic/96883/?page=1 [www.sidefx.com]

I don't want to split that even further across two threads, but I have to agree with you 100% when you said:

"My assumption was that their focus was on the technology backend rather than the front-end."

I think this is the crux of the matter. It seems to me that Sidefx is stuffed with 'architecture astronauts' who see UI/UX as just a frustrating encumbrance before moving on to the next big technology.

I agree unfortunately. The software is amazing. The design of parameter pane, naming of parameters, choice and size of fonts etc is probably one of the worst I have ever seen. I just don’t think they have the expertise not it’s a priority for them. And honestly I will take architecture and core functionality over eye candy any day. The hotkeys was a huge mess up though and surprised there’s no fixes or comments from SideFX yet.

That said, there has been focus on UX which is great! The recipes, sculpt brush (despite the bugs) mmb pane and changes to attributes, Vulkan viewport (despite the bugs) are all steps in the right direction.

I agree. While lacking in the UI, the UX has been getting better with every release. Going back to moving dynamics to dops. The animation context etc.

What do you mean by ‘ Being able to reference/switch between and each geo/lop/cop contexts much more easily is a real joy.’?

citizen
they're architecture engineers not UI designers, after all.

Exactly. I think they need one.