I'm a softimage user.
first of all thank a lot for this subforum dedicated to Softimage users.

One the best feature for my daily work are the great softimage workflow.
Tools like Move component tool are priceless.
For understand how good are softimage modelling tools, please, look video done by Vitaly Bulgarv:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ct9voyU3h0 [youtube.com]

His modelling process, and softimage tool are well explained in this tutorial:
http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/store/product/544/Character-Design-and-Modeling-for-Next-Gen-Games#.UxhEWoWafHQ [thegnomonworkshop.com]

Whatching this tutorial well explain, better than words, why and how softiamge modelling is so great.
I love softimage for simple and fast workflow and because is a complete tool for a freelancer, not only VFX, but great modelling tools, efficient rigging skinnig and rock solid viewport.

Now, from my previous test done in Houdini I found it a bit overcomplicated and not efficient in modelling side. I think you need someone to show the pro of your modelling tools, a good, advacend tutorial explaining houdini workflow.

The other great tutorial of softimage is rigging, but I never test Houdini in this field.
For ICE, I think here Houdini has very great offer, but again, I never investigated this in Houdini.

Another consideration: your annual upgrade plan is a “bit” expensive compared to ADSK

Jholen
Another consideration: your annual upgrade plan is a “bit” expensive compared to ADSK

1. The support and daily builds are way beyond any ADSK product, afaik.

2. The less you want to pay, the less money for Sesi that just might leave you with only ADSK products in the future!

some Informations about the cost.

Jepp it's higher then by ADSK. but what do you get?

In the Houdini Licences you have Unlimited Render Tokens and for the Job handling you will get HQueue for free.

the support Service is fast and Friendly.
my experience as a Apprentice User: I had found some time ago a bug made a bug report and sent it. 25min later feedback bug couldn't be found please use the newest daily build and give feedback. so i made from my 2 weeks old houdini a update to the newest one and yes the bug has been solved in that short time frame. my coloution: First update to a daily Build and when the bug is still there report it. :-)



More Informations about HQueue: http://www.sidefx.com/docs/hqueue13.0/help/overview.html [sidefx.com]

Whats include with in the Subscription:
http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1429&Itemid=321 [sidefx.com]

RSS Feed for Daily Builds Bugfix: http://www.sidefx.com/journal/rss.php?version=13.0 [sidefx.com]

i think the annual upgrade plan is worth every penny, considering what You get at other places. keep in mind that there are not only major releases that deserve it's name, there are countless weekly updates and production build updates. beside that You can contact sidefx easily to get assistance with specific problems like bugs and feature requests and sidefx is very responsive with that. sometimes bugs get fixed within 1 or 2 days. that said i think the price is more than fair

As a customer I can say that whenever i had a problem, not only bug, but some technical difficulty, I had a response on the same day or the next, with a solution.

Same goes for this forum or the one on odforce, you will get your questions answered in no time, but do a search before :wink:

Yes - i'd liek to chip in here.

Had some niggling issues with pyro shader and rendering sims via Hqueue; after a very quick bantering email with the guys who actually designed these tools at sidefx; i was on track and running. Put simply - awsome support.

The price is really correct and unless they can sustain their development the only route will be mediocrity and zero support.

Are you sure you want the same kind of support Autodesk gave you?

no thanks.

MartybNz

Jholen
Another consideration: your annual upgrade plan is a “bit” expensive compared to ADSK

1. The support and daily builds are way beyond any ADSK product, afaik.

2. The less you want to pay, the less money for Sesi that just might leave you with only ADSK products in the future!

Jholen
Another consideration: your annual upgrade plan is a “bit” expensive compared to ADSK

Another vote for adequacy of AUP price. The fact you can contact SESI anytime asking to solve a production mistery not necessarily rendered by a bug, is priceless and gives great deal of confidence while heading some challenge.

Not that I wouldn't like to pay less, let's hope broader user base will lead to lowering prices too

Jholen
For understand how good are softimage modelling tools, please, look video done by Vitaly Bulgarv:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ct9voyU3h0 [youtube.com]

Looks good, essentially it' a set of modelling tools that are very quickly accessible as they are used over and over again- a carpenters belt!

One question, how is undo dealt with. Once you model it do you only have a linear Undo list to go back through?

Thanks!

Perhaps each operation would be added to a new operator stack paramter; sort of how the Draw/Stroke SOPs give each stroke a tab?

MartybNz

Jholen
For understand how good are softimage modelling tools, please, look video done by Vitaly Bulgarv:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ct9voyU3h0 [youtube.com]

Looks good, essentially it' a set of modelling tools that are very quickly accessible as they are used over and over again- a carpenters belt!

One question, how is undo dealt with. Once you model it do you only have a linear Undo list to go back through?

Thanks!

I don't know how things are handled internally, but on the surface, it looks that way - everything is subject to undo, selections, ops, everything.

Jholen
I love softimage for simple and fast workflow and because is a complete tool for a freelancer, not only VFX, but great modelling tools, efficient rigging skinnig and rock solid viewport.

Good news is that I'm creating a well documented list with what needs to change or be added within Houdini as far as modeling and scene interaction goes. It might take a few weeks though, but it will come for sure.

Yep modeling operations are handled in the operator stack and undo system, selections undo.

Regular viewport modeling in SI is super fast, and the modeling tools haven't even received many updates over the years. It's a small but very solid toolset.

It really doesn't take much: raycast selection models, quick loop and range selection, a move component tool, functioning bevel and extrude operators, edge cutting, polygon slicing and a few more, done.

The reason why I'm a bit worried about the modeling side of things is that ICE modeling is actually rather convoluted (and is missing several vital operators, but that's another story).

MartybNz
One question, how is undo dealt with. Once you model it do you only have a linear Undo list to go back through?

No, every object has its own operator stack. Every topology change you make (including things such as moving vertices) is added to the modeling operator stack. This stack allows a limited amount of non-destructive editing. You can re-order operators, change their settings etc.

In actuality though, since most modeling operations change the component indices, it's rarely possible to make significant changes to operators far down the list. However, you can maintain the operator history for as long as you like and undo all operations you've made to the object by simply deleting the operators.

I think he was referring to the ctrl+Z undo, not undoing things by deleting operators in the stack, deletions which are undoable by themselves.

McNistor
I think he was referring to the ctrl+Z undo, not undoing things by deleting operators in the stack, deletions which are undoable by themselves.

ya - sorry for being unclear- procedural workflow allows both a non-linear and linear, cntr-Z undo. Working in Nuke & Houdini makes procedural the default way of thinking both undo workflows are relevant

Thanks to all for the reply.

About subcription and support, I never used on softimage TBH. I use the forum sometime to ask question and resolve some issue, but was rare.

McNistor, I wait your document, thanks for the job

I want stress a bit the point softimage was during this years my swiss kinife, a tool fit very well the need of a generalist freelancer. Hope to find some in Houdini. Now, need to study…

Jholen
About subcription and support, I never used on softimage TBH..

One advantage of Autodesk is that as a large corporation you the Walmart style mass production pricing model, one disadvantage is they kill off software if the profit targets aren't met.

Not sure you can have both the discount software and boutique-style care and attention.


Edit: it's worth checking out the history of AutoDesk, tonnes of reading material where you can see it change from a rad little ambitious company to one where they go public and have to respect quarterly earnings. i.e. short goals start to overtake from long term goals.

http://www.fourmilab.ch/autofile/ [fourmilab.ch]

About subcription and support, I never used on softimage TBH. I use the forum sometime to ask question and resolve some issue, but was rare.

A first-time purchase of a Houdini or Houdini FX license entitles you to 1 year of support, so you'll get quite a long trial run to see if it's worth it to you or not.

I find the price totally reasonable for what I get, amazing improvements every year and great support. Although now hopefully they're gonna get part of the XSI market and will be able to lower their price. But for sure I wouldn't agree to pay less to go more to something like Autodesk products and support.

Francois